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Author Topic:   If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2963 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 23 of 708 (704937)
08-20-2013 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
08-13-2013 9:13 AM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
straggler writes:
I don't think I have previously been confronted with the idea that every breath we take requires god's involvement and that an absence of intervention at any moment in time would equate to the end of existence.
Is this sort of ultra-intervention idea common amongst theists?
How much intervening does god do?
Is any intervening necessary at all?
How would we define or determine God "doing nothing" as opposed to God doing something?
The Roman Catholic church teaches that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
That God's providence provides for us. So yes God does act in and control each life.
In his book "Thoughts in Solitude" Thomas Merton writes at page 45 when discussing the spiritual life;
"It is the silence of our whole being in compunction and adoration before God in the habitual realization that He is everything and we are nothing, that He is the Center to which all things tend, and to Whom all our actions must be directed. That our life and strength proceed from Him, that both in life and in death we depend entirely on Him, that the whole course of our life is foreknown by Him and falls into the plan of His wise and merciful Providence;..."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 08-13-2013 9:13 AM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by DrJones*, posted 08-20-2013 5:44 PM shadow71 has replied
 Message 25 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2013 6:02 PM shadow71 has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2963 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 26 of 708 (704955)
08-20-2013 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by DrJones*
08-20-2013 5:44 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
DrJones writes:
God controlling each life eliminates that whole "free will" thing
That is an interesting point. Could it be that we can reject God's will by the use of our free will?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by DrJones*, posted 08-20-2013 5:44 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by DrJones*, posted 08-20-2013 8:35 PM shadow71 has replied
 Message 29 by NoNukes, posted 08-20-2013 9:19 PM shadow71 has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2963 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 27 of 708 (704956)
08-20-2013 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tangle
08-20-2013 6:02 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
tangle writes:
And in his book "Thoughts on Peculiar Religious Drivel" Tangle writes on page 1, "what Thomas Merton says is all bollox".
So the situation is finely balanced.
Would like to read that book. Have you ever read Merton?

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 Message 25 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2013 6:02 PM Tangle has not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2963 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 30 of 708 (705004)
08-21-2013 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by DrJones*
08-20-2013 8:35 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
DrJones writes:
Kind of makes him pretty weak if us mere mortals can override his will.
Not if that is the way, in his love, he created mortals. Giving them the free will to accept him or to reject him.
Of course the consequences are quite devastating, but, humanity seems unwilling to accept God. Hubris.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by DrJones*, posted 08-20-2013 8:35 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by DrJones*, posted 08-21-2013 8:35 PM shadow71 has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2963 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 31 of 708 (705005)
08-21-2013 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by NoNukes
08-20-2013 9:19 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
NoNukes writes:
No. It is God's will that you have choices.
So it is logical that we can reject his will and live with the consequences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by NoNukes, posted 08-20-2013 9:19 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by NoNukes, posted 08-21-2013 9:59 PM shadow71 has not replied
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 08-21-2013 10:02 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2963 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 33 of 708 (705007)
08-21-2013 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by DrJones*
08-21-2013 8:35 PM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
DrJones writes:
Which is it then? do we have free will or does god control each life as you previously claimed?
God controls our life, but we have the free will to reject God, and then our providence is very different from the eternal salvation, God grants through his son Jesus, who gave his human life for the forgiveness of our sins.
Basically the choices of each human is to accept God and his love for us or to reject God. The decision to accept or reject has consequences in the afterlife.
This is obviously my belief and not a theological expert opinion. If you believe in the God I believe in, then these statements are not as radical as many of you may take them to be

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by DrJones*, posted 08-21-2013 8:35 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by kofh2u, posted 08-24-2013 10:00 AM shadow71 has replied

  
shadow71
Member (Idle past 2963 days)
Posts: 706
From: Joliet, il, USA
Joined: 08-31-2010


Message 38 of 708 (705260)
08-25-2013 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by kofh2u
08-24-2013 10:00 AM


Re: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
kofh2u writes:
You are merely saying that Reality, and the sanity of living in Reality is what ought control our decisions in this life, if one removes the charged and misleading theological jargon while examining what you say here in the light of a Creator God whose spirit is still at work as that Network of Natural Laws which unfold every next frame of Reality.
I am not saying "reality" is what controls our decisions. I am saying that God through creation, that is continuing, provides us with the gifts necessary to fulfill his will and providence. Reality is not God, nor does reality, in my belief, control our decisions.
The "misleading theological jargon" is fundamental to my faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by kofh2u, posted 08-24-2013 10:00 AM kofh2u has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 08-25-2013 5:52 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
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