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Author | Topic: Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 378 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
It was the commenters comment that I thought was funny.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
...but attributed to Ham it has unfortunate implications. Ham would have been best advised to have kept this mouth shut about this rather difficult (for him personally) and completely understandable move by the Smithsonian; receiving and displaying a donated nearly complete T-Rex skeleton. With the proper attributions, isn't Ham's position still a bit difficult? Ham has a museum full of fake dinosaurs posed in made up situations that cannot be justified by the Bible [1], and he complains about the acquisition of the most complete real T-rex skeleton ever found. Isn't Ham's Ark, being subsidized by the state of Kentucky, the 5th poorest state in the union? And then there is the "we're not racists, we hate everybody" crap straight from Ham's web page:
quote: The T-Rex will attract tons of visitors to the Smithsonian. I am definitely going first chance I get. [1] I am aware that some people believe that the Bible depicts men being contemporaneous with dinosaurs. I find that to be a stretch, but riding them Flintstone style as is shown in Ham's museum? Please. This crap does much harm to Christianity.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm not defending Ken Ham's position on the Smithsonian's acquiring a T Rex, it just bothered me that that particular quote was attributed to him.
However, I certainly understand his feelings about teaching kids evolution (which is not real science as I've said before). Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
it just bothered me that that particular quote was attributed to him. It's best to be accurate, however my point is that Ham actually said much stupider stuff. What is the point of complaining about a Natural History Museum accepting a donated T-Rex?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Ark park won't get Kentucky tax incentives
Apparently they felt it might violate separation of jerk and state ... wait, I'll read that again. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
quote: bold added. This is part of why he went to the lion's den to speak truth to propaganda.
quote: Getting the message out to those willing to listen. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) |
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Creationist group sues Kentucky over $18 million in tax rebates for Noah’s Ark theme park.
Well, that's real Jesusy of him.
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. But then Jesus added, lo, verily, unto him that won't give you a tax rebate, thou shalt sue his ass, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
As usual with you, Dr. A., you have an inability to distinguish between the level of individual relationships and the state. Jesus taught individuals in relationship with individuals, and it is wrong to apply his teaching to governments and nations and states and how we are to deal with them.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Now it turns out that Kurschner has revealed himself to be gay, which explains the whole thing, You are right Faith!. Given that the issue is taxes, Dr Adequate should have cited 'Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's'. Or maybe "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities".
and it is wrong to apply his teaching to governments and nations and states and how we are to deal with them. Yeah, good point. Except Jesus had something to say about government and nations too. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
As usual with you, Dr. A., you have an inability to distinguish between the level of individual relationships and the state. Jesus taught individuals in relationship with individuals, and it is wrong to apply his teaching to governments and nations and states and how we are to deal with them. Okay then, let's look at the Bible for "the level of individual relationships and the state": * Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right [...] Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. * Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. [...] Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Now, look, the state (thank God) is not preventing Mr. Ham from building his theme park. They're just saying that they won't give him tax rebates for doing so. If that's the worst persecution that Christians get, then shouldn't they say "The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted" and then let off fireworks and have a big party 'cos they're living in the USA and not the Roman Empire?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
First you quoted teachings for individuals and now you are quoting the ONLY teachings in the NT that involve our relation to the state.
And it doesn't apply across the board. Christian enterprises have normally been tax-exempt so this situation with Ham is probably a shocking exception, and that's reason enough to challenge it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: The crazy things that you make up. No, just calling your business Christian does NOT exempt you from taxes. For-profit enterprises - and Ark Encounter was set up as a for-profit enterprise - pay taxes. So unless you're shocked by Ken Ham deciding to do things that way, your complaint has no basis in reality.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 887 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Now, look, the state (thank God) is not preventing Mr. Ham from building his theme park. They're just saying that they won't give him tax rebates for doing so. I am not clear on this... is AIG being denied 501(c) status or are they only being denied incentives to build the park? It does seem as if the park should qualify for 501(c) status. It seems, from the article you referenced, that what the state had a problem with is that AIG would not pledge to not discriminate against hiring non-Christians, which would put AIG at odds with receiving public monies. However, their are ways around this, like having employees sign an agreement that you will support the institution's "mission." In other words, you don't have to BE a Christian, you just have to pretend to be one (I mean act like one) as long as you work there. There are plenty of non-profit Christian institutions that hire only "Christians" yet still meet federal guidelines. I guess I don't get what the problem is and why AIG thinks they are entitled to tax rebates if they won't follow the rules. I suspect that Ham is having trouble getting this project launched and is trying to make it out to look like it was the Big Bad Wolf who has blown his house down. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: AiG has 501(c) status. They chose to set up a nominally separate for-profit organisation to build the Ark Park. This is the organisation that is trying to claim the tax incentives and ignore the laws against discrimination.
quote: That could be the case. We do know that AiG had to buy quite a number of the junk bonds issued to finance the building.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
First you quoted teachings for individuals and now you are quoting the ONLY teachings in the NT that involve our relation to the state. Er, Faith, what's your point? If these are indeed "the ONLY teachings in the NT that involve our relation to the state", then doesn't that make them pretty much conclusive as to how Christians should relate to the state? 'Cos of that being all that Christians have to go on as to how they should relate to the state? If I quoted everything in the Bible against adultery, would you be saying, "Well, those are the ONLY things the Bible says against adultery"? Yeah, there's only gonna be a finite number of mentions of any given thing. How many times does your God have to say something before you take it seriously?
And it doesn't apply across the board Yeah, it's only the fucking Word of God. Screw it.
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