|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature.... | |||||||||||||||||||||||
MrHambre Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
ringo writes:
I'm not sure anymore that the God-is-God-ain't matter is one that can be decided on evidence. Forcing people to reframe their religious beliefs as an evidentiary construct, and then criticizing the construct for its indequacy, might make the world of debatery go round but it's mistaking the finger for what it's pointing to. If the believers accepted the same evidence as evident and interpreted it the same way, that would be an objective interpretation. If the matter is about collective construction of value and meaning, however, then we need to ask different questions. Is the notion of religious belief really analogous to Santa-belief, or more like the belief in the value of currency? Message-board atheists sound like they're trying to convince us that hundred-dollar bills are just scraps of paper. And maybe they are scraps of paper, but they symbolize a whole slew of things that transcend their empirical paperness. In the same way, religious belief is tied into political, philosophical, and psychological matters in ways that are much more important than the existence or nonexistence of The Big G.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
MrHambre writes:
I'm not forcing anybody to do anything. I'm just disregarding conclusions that are not based on evidence. People who draw those conclusions are quite welcome to them - just don't expect anybody else to give them value.
Forcing people to reframe their religious beliefs as an evidentiary construct.... MrHambre writes:
Currency is "real" because we collectively agree on the fictitious value of those scraps of paper. Santa Claus is also "real" to the extent that everybody knows who he is. In what way is Santa Claus less "real" than Brad Pitt?
Is the notion of religious belief really analogous to Santa-belief, or more like the belief in the value of currency? Message-board atheists sound like they're trying to convince us that hundred-dollar bills are just scraps of paper.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
In what way is Santa Claus less "real" than Brad Pitt? Brad Pitt is made of matter, Santa Claus is not.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
MrHambre Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined: |
ringo writes:
Um, right. And if it's not an evidentiary matter, then you're disregarding conclusions on the very basis that you already know isn't going to justify the conclusions. That's fine if we're determined to miss the point, but it doesn't give us any better understanding of why people believe. If someone says he's a Christian because his family is Christian, we can't say that's an inadequate basis for religious belief. After all, it's good enough for him.
I'm just disregarding conclusions that are not based on evidence. ringo writes:
But it's not just that we collectively agree. Currency is a cultural construct that transcends our beliefs and involves legal sanctions for the transfer and treatment of money. Just because something's culturally constructed doesn't mean it's fictitious.
Currency is "real" because we collectively agree on the fictitious value of those scraps of paper.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
The point is, how do you know?
Brad Pitt is made of matter, Santa Claus is not.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
MrHambre writes:
In this topic, I'm not interested in why people believe. I've been talking about how we can tell the difference between belief and "knowledge".
That's fine if we're determined to miss the point, but it doesn't give us any better understanding of why people believe. MrHambre writes:
Yes, a cultural construct is something we collectively agree on. We don't always have to take a survey to find out if we agree.
Currency is a cultural construct that transcends our beliefs and involves legal sanctions for the transfer and treatment of money. MrHambre writes:
The value of currency is fictitious because it isn't intrinsic. Strictly speaking, the value of gold is mostly fictitious too. You can't eat it.
Just because something's culturally constructed doesn't mean it's fictitious.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Cat's Eye writes:
The point is, how do you know? Brad Pitt is made of matter, Santa Claus is not. Brad Pitt is a human being and Santa Claus is a fictional character.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Brad Pitt never brought me presents but Santa has.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Brad Pitt never brought me presents but Santa has. Literally never happened. You got bamboozled!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Nah, I got the presents. Never got a bambozzle though I did get a Jews Harp and pig whistle once.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I'm not in the mood for playing dumb.
Have a nice day.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
There's no need for you to play, but the facts are that I have objective evidence for Santa Claus but none for Brad Pitt.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
How do you know?
Brad Pitt is a human being and Santa Claus is a fictional character.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Cat's Eye writes:
How do you know? Brad Pitt is a human being and Santa Claus is a fictional character. Brad Pitt is a living person. Santa Claus is a hodgepodge of characters from multiple cultural myths.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
How do you know?
Brad Pitt is a living person. Santa Claus is a hodgepodge of characters from multiple cultural myths.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024