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Author | Topic: Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Davidjay writes:
That's not how the magi described Jesus. The called him King of the Jews, not Messiah of the Universe. The Jews never thought of their Messiah as Messiah of the Universe. That's a later Christian invention.
Because the Messiah was the Messiah of all the Universe and not a mere country.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It's actually very clear. They asked where the child was, not where Bethlehem was. And if you're asking for directions, you don't go to the White House; you ask somebody on the street.
... it's not clear that they were asking where the child was to be born, but where Bethlehem was, which they wouldn't have known if they'd never been to Judea before. Faith writes:
We know they thought he was no ordinary King. Or rather, the authors of the story, who thought he was no ordinary king, claimed he was no ordinary king. What signs revealed this to them aren't all that clear to us, but since they came to worship him we know they knew He was no ordinary king. He was, after all, nothing like a king in any way. It seems like a made-up attempt to portray him as something he was not.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Oh come on. Do you think Superman in the movies is the exact spittin image of Superman in comic books because Superman is real? Or could it be because one copied the other?
It's impossible to explain then, how it is that the Woman of Revelation 12 is the exact spittin image of this mythological sign.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Everything is a failure until it succeeds. You can't claim that no prophecy in the Bible has failed until all of them succeed. How can a prophecy of the future have failed before its time has come? Edited by ringo, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Davidjay writes:
You contradict yourself. The FUTURE King of the world has not been fulfilled yet.
I repeat and Faith confirms that all Messianic prophecies have already been fulfilled..If you doubt this, so be it, the future King of the world will try to say he is the Christ and Messiah, believe him and take His Mark of the Beast..
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I didn't deny it. I compared it to the correspondence between Superman and Superman.
The correspondence between the woman of Revelation 12 and the image of Virgo rising with the moon at her feet on Rosh Hashana 3 BC is undeniable.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I suggested that it appears to be fiction. You're the one who trivializes fiction. You'd rather believe that outlandish nonsense is literally true.
You trivialized it, mocked it. Same thing.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Davidjay writes:
And as long as the event is still in the Future, it is NOT fulfilled. So Yes, Ringo, your King if you choose and love him, is coming in the Future, and awaits in the wings to replace Putin. In the Present, it is not possible to tell the difference between an unfulfilled prophecy and a failed prophecy.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Signs found in the stars are fiction.
The woman of Revelation 12 is a VISION, the constellation Virgo is a sign found in the stars. What's the fiction?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
The celestial events are there but the connection to anything in the Bible is pure fantasy. An eclipse is real but thinking it's a dragon eating the sun is not.
Since they are there, what they are has reality... Faith writes:
Do you know what fiction is? Fiction IS deliberately making up something that is NOT real and connecting it to something that IS real. Long John Silver is connected to pirates and the Caribbean and Bristol, all of which are real - but Long john Silver is not real. Some readers may be deluded into thinking fiction is real but the ones who recognize fiction as fiction are not the deluded ones.
since the reality of Virgo at Rosh Hashana exactly fits the description of the woman in Revelation 12, calling it "fiction" is some kind of self-delusion.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Hello? The constellation itself is made up. Somebody imagined that a particular group of stars looked like a woman. The connection is on the astronomy program. It's right there, the entire image, it isn't made up, it's exactly the image of the Revelation 12 woman, exactly, sun, moon stars, the works. If you have a vision of Long John Silver, that doesn't prove he's real. If you see a fat man with a white beard, you'll think of Santa Claus whether you believe in Santa Claus or not. The connection doesn't make either the fictional character or the vision real.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Of course. Why can't he have a vision of something he can describe?
So John had a vision of this fictional astrological woman. It happens to be describable in the same terms as his vision.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
By whom? Is the cloud that looks like a duckie treated as an objective reality too?
The contellations are made up, but oddly enough they are treated as objective realities. Faith writes:
Other cultures see a different image and CALL it something else.
When the constellation Virgo is shown rising in the sky on the astronomy program in the Star film, on Rosh Hashana 3 BC, it is CALLED "Virgo," and it WAS "clothed with the sun and with the moon at her feet." Faith writes:
That's what I'm saying. He wouldn't have had a vision of something he had never seen. He would naturally associate his vision with something he knew about.
SO, once a constellation is recognized as having a particular character and identity it becomes part of a person's picture of the sky, so it is quite possible for John to have had a vision of the particular constellation of Virgo with the character of a woman rising with the sun and with the moon at her feet.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Really? Really? Really?
Can you provide the historical evidence for this neat little fantasy?
Absolutely the best, the most excellent, the most trustworthy:
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
-- Revelation 1:9quote:
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That's what I'm saying. You can't take the word of fiction that fiction is true.
Fiction does try to sound like truth you know.
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