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Author | Topic: Addiction By Definition | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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I stopped counting my days of sobriety and focused instead on the ability to get right back on the "horse" after being bucked off.(relapse)
To refresh everyone's memory, I have named three primary areas of possible addictive habits in my life. By definition, the brain has molded itself around these habits and mindful daily vigilance and awareness is necessary to achieve sobriety (or changing behavior) which will occur in time.Here is my report card: 1) Compulsive Gambling--This was my most out of control addiction and after achieving one year of sobriety I had a major relapse in late 2017 which erased my gains. Recovering from that, I have become more mindful of my patterns, triggers, and brain-related disorders that contribute to the addiction. I no longer chart my days of sobriety except to say that I am usually sober 30-45 days before occasionally lapsing for usually no longer than a day. Thus, instead of one year sober and 6 months relapse, I now get 40 days sober and 1-day lapse...followed by 30-45 more sober days. The pattern is under better control. Mindful and healthy eating This one is subtle and is not so much an addiction as it is a lazy and bad habit. I'm working on eating healthier 80% of the time and messing up 20% of the time as a goal....and I hope to achieve a permanent healthy lifelong diet discipline that I can live with.
Emotional Addiction This one is now the primary addiction that I am working on. It goes back even farther in my life than did the problem gambling. Much of it is of a personal and sensitive nature so I won't elaborate on it here except to say that I am gaining mindfulness on what once were unconscious and harmful emotional behaviors. In summation, I am learning more about myself and am being mindful and consciously aware of my behaviors. The summer is turning out to be productive. I am working and going to the health club at least 3 days a week. I am drinking more water as well. Thats my report.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith |
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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I am happy to report that I am firmly back under control of my addictions, and I am thankful to again be mindful and aware of my successes as well as my failures. (We learn a lot from failure)
RAZD writes: Every time that I cycle into this stable pattern, I bring a bit more knowledge with me into the fight.
You can do it, you have done it before, and doing it again is easier -- your brain will easily resume that learned pattern as well, but you are fighting one you've been trapped in for a long time. It takes dedication and commitment. Tangle writes: My Doctor agrees with you. He claims that there are many people now obsessed with ketogenic diets and extreme intermittent fasting...which I will admit that I looked into a few months ago. (He calls those people Ketards! ) It seems to me that you're making eating just another one of your obsessions. If you want to be 'normal' why not behave like a normal? Eating is not something you need to make into a big thing. Normal isn't researching, calibrating and chronicling everything you cook and ingest and looking for admiration; normal is just eating what you like and being sensible about it. As far as my basic diet goes, it is low carb all the way...but once stability has been achieved and blood sugars brought back under control, restrictions on carb intake can be relaxed. As a diabetic, I can't let carbohydrate addiction bring me down. Today is Day 15,(started my program on September 1st) and I weigh 230. My overall goal is mental...Psychiatrists tell me that I need to move from anxiety into awareness and from addictive behavior(self-medicating the anxiety) into positive action. Again, the key word is balance and mindfulness. My overall goals are to simply become more aware of my responsibilities for my own personal health and the best methods for avoiding addictive behaviors in general. I am optimistic once again! Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: I'd divide Rational into Good Rational and Bad Rational. Bad Rational says there "must" be something beyond the natural and it stretches the rational beyond its limits to try to prove it. Good Rational is skeptical of Bad Rational. Nonsense. Read
this and tell me what you think. By the way for those so interested, I had a few relapses and mental struggles since September 2018, but overall im getting stronger mentally. I now weigh 220. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Explain. Nonsense.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
If you bothered to read my link, you would have found that it is only rational and animal. You prefer to call it good rational and bad rational, but there is nothing rational about being driven by emotions and hunger if they, in fact, are bad for you.
You say that you (or some in the future) will likely always smoke cigarettes. That behavior is never a part of the rational brain. It is an animal brain that likes it. Same with my gambling and all of the other addictions that people face. Two Wolves Parable The rational brain is a good wolf. The animal brain is the bad wolf. Comments?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat writes: The rational brain is a good wolf. The animal brain is the bad wolf. Comments? It's better not to equate natural processes as good and bad; they're neutral. The 'animal brain' as you call it is actually the more primitive parts of our brain that mostly deal with survival and reproduction, breathing, sweating, feeling, seeing, hearing etc etc. It's not bad, it's essential to life. The bits of the brain that makes us human are those responsible for executive functions - decision making, rational analysis, planning the future etc etc Your executive functions regulate your desires and try prevent you doing things that feel good but might be bad for you or that are antisocial and destructive. They're developmental and need help to work. Executive Function & Self-RegulationJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I know your link says that. I'm asking why you swallow it hook, line and sinker and consider everything else "nonsense".
If you bothered to read my link, you would have found that it is only rational and animal. Phat writes:
Are you under the impression that rationality is 100% reliable and can never be misused?
You prefer to call it good rational and bad rational... Phat writes:
I'm talking about how we use rationality to respond to those situations.
... but there is nothing rational about being driven by emotions and hunger if they, in fact, are bad for you. Phat writes:
Good and bad are not black and white. There are a lot of gray wolves in between. The rational brain is a good wolf. The animal brain is the bad wolf. Comments?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
If you bothered to read my link, you would have found that it is only rational and animal.ringo writes: The science makes sense. My rational mind knows what rational things I should do. Cigarette smoking is not rational. Nor is excessive drinking. My rational mind knows these things. Even drinkers who have no problem know their limits and the rationally minded ones never get too drunk.
I know your link says that. I'm asking why you swallow it hook, line and sinker and consider everything else "nonsense".ringo writes: Not quite. I believe that rationality is a learning process. Again, there is nothing rational about being driven by emotions and hunger if they, in fact, are bad for you.
Are you under the impression that rationality is 100% reliable and can never be misused?ringo writes: I am as well. Remember a couple of years ago when you said this:
I'm talking about how we use rationality to respond to those situations.ringo writes: Q Do you suffer from addiction?
A: No. I enjoy it. I've heard addiction defined as a behavior that affects every area of your life - work, home, etc. If you can hold a job and maintain reasonably peaceful interpersonal relationships, I don't much care what bad habits you have. The issue is not that you care what bad habits I have. The issue is whether your rational mind recognizes your own bad habits and informs you when you've gone too far. The RR people would argue that we talk ourselves out of rationality at times.
ringo writes: Some of whom you keep out in the yard, while others you let into the house. Good and bad are not black and white. There are a lot of gray wolves in between. Choose your addictions wisely. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Again, there is nothing rational about being driven by emotions and hunger if they, in fact, are bad for you. Rational or not we are all driven by emotions, hunger, etc. Look at your ape evolution. The "rational" part comes in when trying to control what is irrevocably already there ... the animal. The "rational" part comes in channeling and enjoying the animal, good and bad.
Some of whom you keep out in the yard, while others you let into the house. Choose your addictions wisely. We got some smart apes around here. Nice image, too. Very good, Phat.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And yet people do smoke and drink too much. Their rational minds know it isn't good for them but they do it anyway. Often they even use their rational minds to rationalize their irrational behaviour.
Cigarette smoking is not rational. Nor is excessive drinking. My rational mind knows these things. Even drinkers who have no problem know their limits and the rationally minded ones never get too drunk. Phat writes:
In the case of addiction, I don't think so.
I believe that rationality is a learning process. Phat writes:
And then you smoke or drink or gamble anyway.
The issue is whether your rational mind recognizes your own bad habits and informs you when you've gone too far. Phat writes:
That's what I'm saying. Why is it "nonsense" when I say it?
The RR people would argue that we talk ourselves out of rationality at times. Phat writes:
If we could choose our addictions, they wouldn't be addictions. Choose your addictions wisely.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
My rational mind knows these things. ringo writes: Thats what is called the Addictive Voice. I believe that rationality is a learning process.
And yet people do smoke and drink too much. Their rational minds know it isn't good for them but they do it anyway. Often they even use their rational minds to rationalize their irrational behaviour.ringo writes: Yes. Addiction is a brain disease. The prefrontal lobe heats up and numerous changes happen to the brain which locks a susceptible individual into an addiction. Thus, a large part of the "problem" is physical. RR and Jack Trimpey argue that much of the problem is mental as well. The animal brain, known in parlance as "The Beast" is the voice that cons yourself into allowing yourself to overindulge. In the case of addiction, I don't think so.The issue is whether your rational mind recognizes your own bad habits and informs you when you've gone too far. ringo writes: Yes. It has happened. But it does not always happen, especially when I am paying attention and am mindful and aware of my feelings vs my actions.
And then you smoke or drink or gamble anyway.That's what I'm saying. Why is it "nonsense" when I say it? Because you always like to have the last word in an argument. Perhaps you become my rational voice and I become my own beast for a moment, summarily dismissing any and all of your claims. I feel offended at times that you try to win every argument. I believe. You don't. As for the "message", I suppose we can agree on that, but I'm not sure.
Phat writes:
Choose your addictions wisely.ringo writes: Perhaps you have a point. If we could choose our addictions, they wouldn't be addictions.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't think that's true. "The voice" is a product of the rational mind. Especially in an addiction like gambling, it's the rational mind that tells us what we can do with our winnings. I don't think the "animal brain" can anticipate such things.
The animal brain, known in parlance as "The Beast" is the voice that cons yourself into allowing yourself to overindulge. Phat writes:
Non sequitur.
ringo writes:
Because you always like to have the last word in an argument. That's what I'm saying. Why is it "nonsense" when I say it? Phat writes:
Would you feel better if I tried to lose? I could lose by going inactive like Faith. We could make EvC your personal blog where nobody ever disagrees with you. I feel offended at times that you try to win every argument.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: So are you essentially arguing that the neocortex is skeptical of the limbic system?
I'd divide Rational into Good Rational and Bad Rational. Bad Rational says there "must" be something beyond the natural and it stretches the rational beyond its limits to try to prove it. Good Rational is skeptical of Bad Rational. Phat in September 2018 writes:
As far as my basic diet goes, it is low carb all the way...but once stability has been achieved and blood sugars brought back under control, restrictions on carb intake can be relaxed. As a diabetic, I can't let carbohydrate addiction bring me down.I weigh 230. My overall goal is mental...Psychiatrists tell me that I need to move from anxiety into awareness and from addictive behavior(self-medicating the anxiety) into positive action. Again, the key word is balance and mindfulness. My overall goals are to simply become more aware of my responsibilities for my own personal health and the best methods for avoiding addictive behaviors in general. Phat writes: Today, March 22, 2019, I weigh roughly 220. (Plus or minus 3 lb) I plan on using my rational mind in this latest attempt to master my addictions.
The animal brain, known in parlance as "The Beast" is the voice that cons yourself into allowing yourself to overindulge. ringo writes: I think that the rational mind is wise enough to know that there are no winnings. the rational mind allows itself to let the reptillian brain pleasure the body.
I don't think that's true. "The voice" is a product of the rational mind. Especially in an addiction like gambling, it's the rational mind that tells us what we can do with our winnings. I don't think the "animal brain" can anticipate such things.ringo writes: Hmmmm...
Non sequitur.non se·qui·tur noun a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. Not every conclusion nor action of a rational person (or otherwise) is logical. Some actions are emotional and downright reptillian. The key is to recognize this fact and to determine which brain it comes from. Obviously both function together. Trimpey argues that the animal brain somehow tries to trick the rationale of the neocortex into overindulging itself. quote: ringo writes: Hey! not a bad idea! Except that nobody visits Faiths Blog and nobody would visit mine either.
Would you feel better if I tried to lose? I could lose by going inactive like Faith. We could make EvC your personal blog where nobody ever disagrees with you. Obviously the answer is yes, because many do. Not everything is black and white, as ringo pointed out. I would argue, however, that for someone caught in the throes of an addiction, the issue is very much black and white. The brain pattern is abberent. The behavior is unproductive. The issue becomes life or death. What does everyone think? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's exactly my point. The rational mind is on both sides.
the rational mind allows itself to let the reptillian brain pleasure the body. Phat writes:
That's not a reply to what you quoted.
ringo writes:
Not every conclusion nor action of a rational person (or otherwise) is logical. Some actions are emotional and downright reptillian. The key is to recognize this fact and to determine which brain it comes from. Obviously both function together. Non sequitur. Phat writes:
We're not talking about the addict's perspective. We're looking at it from outside. I would argue, however, that for someone caught in the throes of an addiction, the issue is very much black and white. The brain pattern is abberent. The behavior is unproductive. The issue becomes life or death.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: That's exactly my point. The rational mind is on both sides. Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Rom 7:13-25 writes: Allow me to translate that into RATIONAL RECOVERY Speak.
Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind, I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. NKJVRom 7:13-25 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But (reptilian brain) that it might appear carnal and addicted, was producing death in me through what is good,(distinguishing itself as the rational mind) so that pleasure through the commandment might become exceedingly tempting.. 14 For we know that the law(Rational Mind) is spiritual, but it is carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that it does not practice; but what I hate, that it does.. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the rational mind that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but (tghe reptilian brain) that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in my flesh nothing good dwells; for to will (to be rational and wise) is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, It does not do; but the evil I will not to do, that It practices. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but the reptilian brain that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil (carnality and desire) is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.(Rational Conscience) 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.(If I allow it) 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the rational mind I myself serve the law of the message, but with the flesh the law of sin.NKJV See how that works? Whenever anyone says that "the devil made me do it" they really mean to say that they themselves allowed the reptillian brain to override the rational mind. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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