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Author | Topic: Testing The Christian Apologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
We are saved by Christ's sacrifice ALONE through grace ALONE and no works at all "lest any man should boast." Not my conversation but I just have to comment. Works, no works, makes no difference. No one's going to heaven. No one's going to hell. We're all going back to that great energy well called Earth scattered amongst its ecosystems and environments to be recycled yet again. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Remarkable how you can believe a pure invention of your own mind. What I believe is external to me, objectively given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Thermodynamics, especially entropy, is the law. It will not be violated no matter how hard you close your eyes, click your heels, and wish.
We know from where your fantasies come. Within a religionist's head, external and objective are synonyms for emotional and wishful thinking. Heavy on the hypocrisy.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes thermodynamics works irrevocably on the physical body but we are more than physical and your soul is immortal whether you like it or not. I should think you would appreciate your own special human qualities which are certainly not physical but as God says He had to give up arguing with us for we are "but flesh" and flesh can't grasp the truth. He also says "Flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God," it's for the human spirit. Thermodynamics operates because of the Fall, which deprived us of our spiritual sense and left us "but flesh." This I know through revelation, it's not something a person of mere flesh, whose "breath is in his nostrils" rather than the breath of God, could grasp without revelation. You'd rather trust your fleshly senses unfortunately. I'm sorry.
External and objedtive refers to the revelation which is outside me and had to be learned because my own nature could never intuit it. And I was like you until my mid to late forties, just as much in the dark about these things because of my flesh as you are. But to you I'm just a crazy person so barring a miracle there is no hope. Oh but I do believe in miracles so there is some hope. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Thermodynamics works because of the universe. Your talking snake has nothing to say on this.
External and objedtive refers to the revelation which is outside me and had to be learned because my own nature could never intuit it. Ahh, yes. Emotion and wishful thinking. The religionist's external objectivity. No wonder you people lost the war for influence in this society.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Losing the war for influence is unfortunately the result of a lack of vigilance against the world, the flesh and the devil. It is our own fault for that reason, certainly, but the spirit is a subtle thing and unbelievers are "but flesh' who cannot discern the truth, and the devil spends all his time affirming your fleshly beliefs, and the world is made up of fleshly human beings. There's a lot working against us and we have not been vigilant. We are always falling into sin and losing our spiritual compass.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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You'd have made a great 17th century Catholic.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Nope. The RCC teaches a works-oriented salvation doctrine that contradicts the Bible...quote: "If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The RCC condemned the Protestant Reformation's Faith without Works formula. Side with the RCC if you want but what I've said is true.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Catholics and Protestants agree on some things, just not the most important things.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As a Protestant Christian I will point out that Faith without Works is valueless.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Which is a meaningless statem4ent in itself since works FOLLOW faith and in THAT sense faith without works is dead, but WORKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Which is a meaningless statem4ent in itself since works FOLLOW faith and in THAT sense faith without works is dead, but WORKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. That's just more of the "What's in it for me" Chapter of Club Christian excuse making. Works stand on their own. Faith plays no role. Works can be justified, faith cannot. Salvation is irrelevant and again more of just a cheap marketing ploy for snake oil salesmen that is very profiable, legal and carries no product liability.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
So does the Bible. I quoted it. And it continues: The RCC condemned the Protestant Reformation's Faith without Works formula.quote:What part of "not by faith only" do you not understand? Faith writes:
It has nothing to do with sides. What you said is clearly false.
Side with the RCC if you want but what I've said is true.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You ignore the places where it is very clear tht we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone without works, and all scripture is to be interpreted in the light of other scripture. So the proper way to understand James' statements is that works validate faith but the faith comes first.
Abraham could not have sacrificed Isaac without strong faith in God. Rahab could not have been willing to lie for the Israelites without strong faith in their God. Yes faith WITHOUT works is dead but that's a different subject than being saved by faith alone. THEN the works follow. You cannot have faith without works, which would only prove you weren't saved, but you are nevertheless saved by faith alone in Christ alone. Do you really want me to find all THOSE scriptures you so conveniently left out?
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