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Author Topic:   Testing The Christian Apologists
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3 of 853 (865007)
10-19-2019 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
10-19-2019 4:35 PM


I don't really get what you are "testing" here. I listened to quite a bit of the talk, and except for his being an Arminian/antiCalvinist in my view it's a good basic talk on Christian issues.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 10-19-2019 4:35 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 1:24 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 9 of 853 (865051)
10-20-2019 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
10-20-2019 1:24 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
you will always be a sister even if I don't necessarily always agree with you I am commanded to love you. Is the same command to love extended to Leftists? Muslims? Gays? or are we to love the church first and foremost...comments?

As Turek points out later in his talk love is often misunderstood by Christians as if it implies agreement when we cannot agree with those whose belief systems violate God's commandments. So we love them by treating them kindly and helping them as they need help.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 152 of 853 (866067)
11-05-2019 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by AZPaul3
11-04-2019 7:14 PM


The whole world likes noodles
So you think that where you're born doesn't determine what you believe?

Of course!

He reaches out, no matter where in the world you may live. He doesn’t wait for you to explore your heart. He doesn’t call waiting for you to answer. He chooses you.

Having read just this far I was amazed that you would say something so true about God, but then of course you go on and spoil it with stuff about Noodlyness. Only of course mostly He reaches out through His missionaries. Interestingly, though, for a few decades now we've been hearing stories of Muslims being converted to Christ through ****** and visions.

{to Percy: Excuse me Mr. Mad ******, but it really is some kind of madness to ****** an ordinary word like "******." I beg you, if you object to something I say please do not punish the English language for it or destroy my ability to write a coherent post, please suspend me instead. I have no idea what I could have said that provoked you to maiming poor innocent words, so it doesn't help if you intend by it to teach me something.

Really this is too much, what you've done to that last paragraph. Obviously you don't care if I stay or go so I think I'll go.}

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by AZPaul3, posted 11-04-2019 7:14 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 8:12 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 156 of 853 (866080)
11-05-2019 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by AZPaul3
11-05-2019 8:12 AM


Re: The whole world likes noodles
My "cult" is mainstream Protestantism or evangelicalism, pretty standard stuff, not a cult.

I wasn't counting conversions I was commenting on your description of God choosing people from everywhere in the world, which I said is through His missionaries, which is biblically called The Great Commission. How many are converted to other religions is **********, sad and **********.

{Sigh. I've got to stop posting since Percy is extirpating ordinary words. I bet "extirpating" isn't on his list yet, mayhbe now it is. Supposedly I use them to denigrate people but I don't even know what he is talking about even when he explains it}

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 8:12 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by ringo, posted 11-05-2019 11:19 AM Faith has responded
 Message 161 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 11:37 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 163 of 853 (866097)
11-05-2019 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by ringo
11-05-2019 11:19 AM


The RCC saves nobody
Sorry the Protestant Reformation showed that Roman Catholicism isn't even Christian, it's a heresy, basically paganism with a false method of salvation that will only send people to Hell.

And Protestantism IS one stream, all teaching one fundamental method of salvation, all by Christ alone through faith, no works of our own.

And what words do you think I'm not choosing carefully enough? "**********" is one he's ********, as well as "******" itself, and "*************."

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by ringo, posted 11-05-2019 11:19 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by ringo, posted 11-05-2019 9:40 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 165 of 853 (866135)
11-06-2019 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by ringo
11-05-2019 9:40 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
And *I* am saying that I chose the words "************" and "**********" among others and you are the Drivel Master.

And I'll repeat it because it matters: The RCC teaches a works-oriented salvation doctrine that contradicts the Bible and can only take people to Hell. We are saved by Christ's sacrifice ALONE through grace ALONE and no works at all "lest any man should boast." .


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Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:27 AM Faith has responded
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 167 of 853 (866146)
11-06-2019 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by AZPaul3
11-06-2019 11:27 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Remarkable how you can believe a pure invention of your own mind. What I believe is external to me, objectively given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:27 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:51 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 169 of 853 (866156)
11-06-2019 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by AZPaul3
11-06-2019 11:51 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Yes thermodynamics works irrevocably on the physical body but we are more than physical and your soul is immortal whether you **** it or not. I should think you would appreciate your own ******* human qualities which are certainly not physical but as God says He had to give up arguing with us for we are "but flesh" and flesh can't grasp the truth. He also says "Flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God," it's for the human spirit. Thermodynamics operates because of the Fall, which deprived us of our spiritual sense and **** us "but flesh." This I know through revelation, it's not something a person of mere flesh, whose "breath is in his nostrils" rather than the breath of God, could grasp without revelation. You'd rather trust your fleshly senses unfortunately. I'm sorry.

External and objedtive refers to the revelation which is outside me and had to be learned because my own nature could never intuit it.

And I was **** you until my mid to late forties, just as much in the dark about these things because of my flesh as you are. But to you I'm just a ***** person so barring a miracle there is no hope. Oh but I do believe in miracles so there is some hope.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:51 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 12:16 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 171 of 853 (866159)
11-06-2019 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by AZPaul3
11-06-2019 12:16 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Losing the war for influence is unfortunately the result of a lack of vigilance against the world, the flesh and the devil. It is our own fault for that reason, certainly, but the spirit is a subtle thing and unbelievers are "but flesh' who cannot discern the truth, and the devil spends all his time affirming your fleshly beliefs, and the world is made up of fleshly human beings. There's a lot working against us and we have not been vigilant. We are always falling into sin and losing our spiritual compass.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 170 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 12:16 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 174 of 853 (866173)
11-06-2019 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ringo
11-06-2019 2:12 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
The RCC condemned the Protestant Reformation's Faith without Works formula. Side with the RCC if you want but what I've said is true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by ringo, posted 11-06-2019 2:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 6:58 PM Faith has responded
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 175 of 853 (866174)
11-06-2019 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Tangle
11-06-2019 12:58 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Catholics and Protestants agree on some things, just not the most important things.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 177 of 853 (866182)
11-06-2019 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by jar
11-06-2019 6:58 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Which is a meaningless statem4ent in itself since works FOLLOW faith and in THAT sense faith without works is dead, but WORKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.

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 Message 176 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 6:58 PM jar has responded

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 180 of 853 (866243)
11-08-2019 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by ringo
11-07-2019 10:41 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
You ignore the places where it is very clear tht we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone without works, and all scripture is to be interpreted in the light of other scripture. So the proper way to understand James' statements is that works validate faith but the faith comes first.

Abraham could not have sacrificed Isaac without strong faith in God. Rahab could not have been willing to *** for the Israelites without strong faith in their God.

Yes faith WITHOUT works is dead but that's a different subject than being saved by faith alone. THEN the works follow. You cannot have faith without works, which would only prove you weren't saved, but you are nevertheless saved by faith alone in Christ alone. Do you really want me to find all THOSE scriptures you so conveniently **** out?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by ringo, posted 11-07-2019 10:41 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 11-08-2019 10:45 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 183 of 853 (866270)
11-08-2019 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by ringo
11-08-2019 10:45 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Yes, works are necessary to show that we have genuine faith, but they do not save us, it's the faith that saves us. the works must be done in that faith, works done without faith are useless. They are what Isaiah says, "All our righteousnesses are as filty rags." Our own righteousness, our own good works, are of no value whatever to God unless they are done in the faith that saves us.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 11-08-2019 10:45 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 11-09-2019 10:41 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 191 of 853 (866304)
11-09-2019 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by ringo
11-09-2019 10:41 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
saiah says, "All our righteousnesses are as filty rags." Our own righteousness, our own good works, are of no value whatever to God unless they are done in the faith that saves us.

You have that backwards. The filthy-rags righteousness is the, "Lord! Lord!" fake faith. That is what is of no value to God. The only value is in what we do.

Fake faith is the same thing as no faith and in either case what Isaiah is saying refers to our own works done in our own fleshly strength rather than in the strength of God through -- genuine, bona fide, for real, authentic -- faith in Him.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 11-09-2019 10:41 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by ringo, posted 11-11-2019 2:21 PM Faith has responded

  
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