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Author | Topic: The War in Europe | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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quote: Pretty much always. I don’t think that applied when they invaded Finland, for instance. Or the Baltic states. And they’ve got quite a record in oppressing people. Let’s not forget the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia - to restore Warsaw Pact control when the Czech people were getting their freedom back. I don’t think NATO has done anything that bad. And what is “anti-racist” in conquering your neighbours?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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quote: I notice that you don’t actually bother to support your assertion. Or even to dispute the other examples I mentioned. What has a neo-Nazi coming from Finland in 1993 have to do with the Russian invasion years before he was born ? Oh right, it’s just a distraction because you have nothing. It doesn’t matter how nasty and dishonest you are. I won’t submit to you any more than I did to any of the other lying bigots who came through here,
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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quote: LNA would have to actually point out things equally bad that NATO had done. Crushing freedom to maintain an oppressive hegemony is pretty bad. NATO actions in Libya and Kosovo for instance don’t go that far. And in Kosovo at least NATO really were helping an oppressed minority. And LNA seems to be a white person who thinks he can enlist people of colour in his fascist crusade just by decreeing it. He really is appallingly racist.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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quote: There was plenty of opposition to the Iraq war. I wasn’t exactly a fan of it. Even so it’s still not as bad as the invasion of Ukraine. I didn’t like the American invasion of Grenada either - which is a closer parallel, but still not quite as bad. So where’s the double standard?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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But it’s not very much like what LNA is saying. There’s no attempt to justify the Russian invasion, just the point that white Ukrainian refugees are getting better treatment than - for instance - Arab refugees.
Which is an entirely valid point. Unlike LNAs. (The British government is being less welcoming than most of Europe - because British racism also targets Eastern Europeans - one of the things behind Brexit).
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
quote: Finland was supporting locals attempting to break away from the Bolshevist regime - helping an oppressed minority. Indeed, there had already been votes to secede in parts of the region.
quote: So Finland helped the locals rebel against an oppressive regime. In 1933-35 the Soviet oppression in East Karelia increased, with local autonomy removed, Finnish leaders purged and the teaching of the Finnish language forbidden.
quote: How does this show that the Russians had any interest in helping an oppressed minority rather than the continuation of their own oppression in Karelia? And how does this even justify the Russian demands against Finland followed by an invasion? And let us not forget the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - the Soviets had their own agreements with the Nazis.
quote: Glad to! As you see it further demolishes your claim. But you knew that - that’s why you aren’t even trying to support it. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
quote: Since the only evidence of that is your say-so, then everyone with any sense will conclude that this is just another of your stupid lies.
quote: I can. It probably means that you wish the Tsars were still in power.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
quote: That’s rich from someone who attempted to claim that the Russian invasion was justified because a neo-Nazi wrestler came from Finland to the US in 1993.
quote: Missing some context there like the fact that those “democratic” communists had belonged to a party that tried to violently overthrow the Finnish government in 1919, leading to a civil war. The rest is even more unimportant - and far less relevant to the fact that it is the Soviets who were the imperialist and colonialists in this conflict.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
quote: Lots of places did. It still doesn’t support your point, nor does it change the fact that the Soviets were the imperialists and colonialists in this conflict. You are the one “gladly dismissing” the facts.
quote: By which you mean to liberate East Karelia from the imperialist colonialist oppressors.
quote: “War is Peace”. Very Orwellian.
quote: What schemes are those. Not appeasing Putin so that he has to fight a war for territorial expansion?
quote: By which you mean “surrender to the imperialists or they’ll declare war and it’s all your fault.” You probably love the use of cluster bombs against civilians,
quote: I’m not the fascist here. And you certainly speak with a forked tongue. Indeed “decipher the language” us code for “tell vicious lies” as you have been caught doing on multiple occasions. Go take you your white imperialist colonialist lies to somewhere they’ll be more appreciated.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
quote: More to do with the Swedes and Russians fighting over Finland. Finland was not an independent state at that time. And indeed, Finland was subject to the Russian Empire after that.
quote: Because boundaries established by imperialists are sacred? Really?
quote: Those would be the violent revolutionaries who fled to Russia after they lost the civil war they started.
quote: Stable borders? With Finland changing hands between Russia and Sweden ? With the border changes in 1917? (ABE) And if you’re talking about the Continuation War that was about recovering land taken by Russia in the Winter War.
quote: No, you’re the one arguing FOR invasion, remember ? You’re supposed to be showing that the Soviet invasion of Finland in the Winter War was about “support for oppressed people who suffered colonialism and discrimination”. So far the only “oppressed people who suffered colonialism and discrimination” we’ve discussed have been the people of East Karelia under the Soviets.
quote: Then why are you the one defending imperialism and colonialism? Oh right it’s because “fascists speak with forked tongues”. You do that a lot. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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quote: By which you mean I keep telling truths you want suppressed.
quote: Which really doesn’t justify invading their peaceful southern neighbour.
quote: Right now Ukraine has exactly that problem. But curiously you’re fine with that.
quote: You really didn’t. But then imperialist expansion and oppressing people isn’t really justified by “border problems”, is it?
quote: Invasions are offence, not defence.
quote: Says the guy who tries to pass invasions off as “border defence”.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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I’m for unilateral Russian withdrawal. I oppose wars of imperialist aggression. Unlike you.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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quote: Now that’s an outright lie. Plenty of people on the Left are prepared to criticise Soviet imperialism. There was zero support for the Nazis in any of my posts. All I did was point out that the Soviet actions in Finland had nothing to do with protecting oppressed minorities - indeed the Soviets were oppressing minorities. But then you love to call people Nazis. Because it “justifies” killing them.
quote: Yes, you have great difficulty believing that anybody could stand against your vicious lies. And no doubt you’d like to add physical violence to the mix.
quote: I claim that you don’t. Lying racists don’t get to dictate what people of colour believe.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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quote: Oh, and because it bears repeating, you tried to claim that the 1939 Soviet invasion of Finland was justified because a neo-Nazi wrestler came from Finland to the US in 1993. To any sane person THAT would be a joke of an argument.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4
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quote: That’s really not what he’s discussing here. Here, he seems to be taking a hardline Tankie view. (And that article is too kind to Tankies - as LNA demonstrates).
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