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Author Topic:   What Is The Positive Evidence For Atheism?
PaulK
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Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 41 of 301 (435709)
11-22-2007 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
11-22-2007 8:14 AM


Re: What came first? God or Dirt?
quote:
I think what he means is the idea that there was eternally existing matter in some form without need of a Creator.
Why does eternally existing matter make more sense than an uncaused first cause? (One of the usual explanations for God)
Well that's something of a strawman. Does "eternal" mean the same as "all time" if time is finite ? And why refer to "matter" when anyone who has a basic understanding of cosmology would know that matter is a form of energy - and that other forms preceded it.
Now "mass/energy has existed for all (finite) time" would be more reasonable. And it is consistent with conservation of energy. So it is not obvious that we need a first cause at all.
But we have another problem with this argument - an excluded middle. Why can we not have a first cause that is NOT God ? It is a big step to go from there being some sort of first cause to the idea that it is God - so the most important part of the argument is simply ignored, left out of the false dichotomy.

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 Message 26 by Phat, posted 11-22-2007 8:14 AM Phat has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 115 of 301 (436118)
11-24-2007 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Hyroglyphx
11-24-2007 1:31 PM


Re: Circular logic
So basically you don't see any difference between knowledge and belief ?
You can't understand why anyone could provisionally hold to a belief that is not strongly grounded enough to be called knowledge ? Like, say, an opinion on who's going to win a football game, or which horse will win a race, or which of two candidates for political office would be best in the job.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-24-2007 1:31 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-24-2007 3:18 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 120 of 301 (436169)
11-24-2007 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Hyroglyphx
11-24-2007 3:18 PM


Re: Circular logic
quote:
Yes, I do. But I hardly see the relevance in the current topic. There is no "knowledge" that one could acquire to prove the non-existence of God. Its every bit as much about belief as it is for the theist at the end of the day.
That's exactly WHY it is relevant. It is entirely possible to beleive that there is no God while conceding that it is not possible to know that there is no God. Because of the distinction between knowledge and belief.
quote:
Atheism is a belief, only it asserts itself as though it could answer the question about the existence of God in absolute terms. It cannot do that
The simple answer to that is "no it doesn't". You really ought to try to get out of this habit of inventing your own "facts".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-24-2007 3:18 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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