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Author Topic:   THE END OF EVOLUTION?
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 75 of 284 (504364)
03-27-2009 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by LucyTheApe
03-27-2009 5:29 PM


Re: 2LoTD
Why is it that evolutionists try to complicate something that is so simple?
Because it's not as simple as you believe it to be. Although, I'd agree that the 2LoT is a pretty simple concept, you're just a few puzzle pieces short of seeing the picture.
In teh example of the fuel vs exhaust, while some of that exhaust can potentially be used by plants to make more of that fuel (and that's oversimplified to a degree that makes me cringe), the actual energy content of the exhaust is lower than that of the fuel. The plants can only use the exhaust mass to make more fuel with the additional input of energy from the sun. It's the external energy source provided by the sun that allows the entropy of the plants to decrease.
It's all about potential energy - like when you hold a rock above the ground. The rock has potential energy, and if dropped it will perform work. But once it's at rest on the ground, its potential energy content is decreased, meaning the entropy of the rock-ground system is increased. The only way for the rock to regain potential energy (and thus decrease entropy) is for an external energy source to provide that energy - typically in the form of you picking up the rock again.
It's a very simple concept, but energy doesn't just flow around in an infinite circle. Whenever work is performed, energy is "lost" as heat. It doesn't disappear (you cannot destroy energy), but it's no longer usable for performing work, meaning entropy is increased. The only way to decrease entropy is through an external energy source. In the case of teh Earth and life, this external energy source is the sun.
When Son Goku replied to you regarding perpetual motion machines (where work is performed infinitely in a closed system, a violation of thermodynamics), he was referring to your example of fuel exhaust being used for the creation of new fuel. If the system is closed, that would be impossible - without the input of new energy from the sun, the cycle of exhaust > plant > fuel > exhaust is a perpetual energy machine, and a violation of thermodynamics.
Does that help at all?
Edited by Rahvin, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by LucyTheApe, posted 03-27-2009 5:29 PM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by LucyTheApe, posted 03-27-2009 6:10 PM Rahvin has replied
 Message 77 by Son, posted 03-27-2009 6:24 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 78 of 284 (504371)
03-27-2009 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by LucyTheApe
03-27-2009 6:10 PM


Re: 2LoTD
quote:
Rahvin writes:
the actual energy content of the exhaust is lower than that of the fuel.
No its not, the first law tells us that!
No, Lucy. The first law tells us that the enrgy was not destroyed, which is true. The energy was converted to heat and lonst when it was used to perform work. The exhaust does not contain that energy - it was radiated away to the surrounding environment, and is now useless for performing more work.
quote:
Rahvin writes:
It's a very simple concept, but energy doesn't just flow around in an infinite circle.
Yes it does, first law again.
But not in the way you've been describing. Perpetual motion machines are impossible because of the 2LoT. Entropy MUST increase or remain the same. Performing work while losing no energy requires a net decrease in entropy - impossible in a clsoed system.
quote:
Rahvin writes:
without the input of new energy from the sun, the cycle of exhaust > plant > fuel > exhaust is a perpetual energy machine, and a violation of thermodynamics.
It's not a violation of the laws. It's not me that's confused, its you guys.
It's only because there is information(order) in the universe that a machine (or process) can exist to start off with.
Lucy, actual physicists are telling you that you are mistaken. Perhaps you might consider that physicists might know more about physics than you do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by LucyTheApe, posted 03-27-2009 6:10 PM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by LucyTheApe, posted 03-27-2009 7:18 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 269 of 284 (507755)
05-07-2009 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Trev777
05-07-2009 5:08 PM


Re: Quantum Gap
Shame on you -this is blasphemous disrespect for Christian members on this site.
-shrug-
You're the one who believes in an invisible man that watches us masturbate, and takes special interest in which orifices penises are allowed to enter, and kills people for spilling "seed" on the ground.
Calling Jesus a "cocksucker" is only negative in the context of your particular beliefs. I happen to have known many "cocksuckers," and I certainly don't consider it to be a negative thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Trev777, posted 05-07-2009 5:08 PM Trev777 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by onifre, posted 05-09-2009 5:01 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
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