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Spotting Beretta's "designer" {Now only 1 summation message per member}

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Author Topic:   Spotting Beretta's "designer" {Now only 1 summation message per member}
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

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Message 62 of 315 (475216)
07-14-2008 7:42 AM 		Reply to: Message 59 by Beretta
07-14-2008 6:01 AM

Re: Initial questions...
What is it that tells us that something is designed rather than just fallen into place from following the laws of nature?
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You tell us. And be sure to include Mr Pollock's work in your answer.
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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Beretta, posted 07-14-2008 6:01 AM Beretta has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Beretta, posted 07-14-2008 8:43 AM Coragyps has replied
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

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Message 67 of 315 (475233)
07-14-2008 9:13 AM 		Reply to: Message 64 by Beretta
07-14-2008 8:43 AM

Re: Natural law vs Intelligent Design
I sure hope Agobard changed his mind before he met his maker.
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And why do you hope that? He was an archbishop in France who, says Wikipedia
In his writings against popular superstitions, he denounced the trial by ordeal of fire and water, the belief in witchcraft, and the ascription of tempests to magic, maintained the Carolingian opposition to image-worship, but carried his logic farther and opposed the adoration of the saints. In his purely theological works Agobard was strictly orthodox.
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Or, Beretta, do you subscribe to trial by fire for suspected witches?
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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Beretta, posted 07-14-2008 8:43 AM Beretta has replied
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 Message 68 by Beretta, posted 07-14-2008 10:26 AM Coragyps has not replied
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

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Message 77 of 315 (475476)
07-16-2008 9:31 AM 		Reply to: Message 75 by Beretta
07-16-2008 9:19 AM

Re: Who is the designer?
Or why do octopi have better 'designed' eyes than humans?
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We live in a different environment, maybe it's not a 'better' design just different reflecting something they need that we don't.
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How 'bout those whales, seals, and porpoises, who live in the same environment as the squid and octopi? They have mammalian retinas, with the light-sensitive part on the back side, but they look through the same seawater as the squid. Some of them spend their days looking for squid to eat!
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Why not two designers? A God for mammals and a God for cephalopods? And the mammal god just forgot that baleen whales didn't need teeth, so he had them grow tooth buds before they were born? What's wrong with that?
​
"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
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 Message 75 by Beretta, posted 07-16-2008 9:19 AM Beretta has not replied
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

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Message 81 of 315 (475488)
07-16-2008 10:55 AM 		Reply to: Message 80 by Beretta
07-16-2008 10:48 AM

Re: Design needs a designer
We see physical matter and we believe as a matter of necessity that a whole bunch of time was required for what we believe must have happened.
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No, we know for a certainty, confirmed by perhaps ten independent lines of evidence, that we live on a planet that's over 4,000,000,000 years old. And we can trace how life changed over the last couple of billions of those years. The bunch of time is incontrivertibly there, Beretta.
​
"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
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 Message 80 by Beretta, posted 07-16-2008 10:48 AM Beretta has not replied
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

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Message 108 of 315 (475972)
07-20-2008 8:49 AM 		Reply to: Message 106 by Beretta
07-20-2008 8:26 AM

Re: In the beginning...
God, the intelligent creator is outside of time so he has no beginning and thus no cause.
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Two, or is it three? unsupported, evidence-free assertions in one sentence. Remarkable.
​
"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Beretta, posted 07-20-2008 8:26 AM Beretta has replied
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 Message 110 by Beretta, posted 07-20-2008 9:35 AM Coragyps has not replied
 Message 123 by ramoss, posted 07-23-2008 2:25 PM Coragyps has not replied
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

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Message 236 of 315 (477530)
08-04-2008 10:55 AM 		Reply to: Message 234 by Beretta
08-04-2008 10:41 AM

Re: The problem isn't the end, it's the means.
I need to see the creatures (plenty of them with a portion of the fourth chamber, the three and a half chambered intermediate heart working before i'll believe that.)
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Your wish is my command:
http://dml.cmnh.org/2000Jul/msg00156.html
Warm-hearted crocs | Nature
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Or, for the one-to-two chamber transition:
Evolution of the Heart
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Oh - and where is your evidence for Intelligent Design?
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Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.
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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Beretta, posted 08-04-2008 10:41 AM Beretta has replied
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002

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Message 263 of 315 (477717)
08-06-2008 10:10 PM 		Reply to: Message 262 by Buzsaw
08-06-2008 9:27 PM

Re: The problem isn't the end, it's the means.
On and on one could go for reasons to go with intelligent design.
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You left out "the whole surface of this planet is molded in precisely the way required for this mud puddle in this one spot to have the exact shape it has."
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And did you know that the earth is three million miles closer to the sun in January than in July?
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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2008 9:27 PM Buzsaw has not replied
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