The Psychology Behind the Belief in Heaven and Hell

I am not sure if this topic has been discussed yet or not but I would like to investigate the rational many Christians and other religious people have in justifying a certain religious belief. This religious belief entails their willingness to accept the reward by God of going to eternal bliss in heaven for eternity while at the same time accepting the fate of even their closest friends and family members spending eternity in everlasting torment, torture and excruciating pain and agony forever which makes the holocaust and any other man-made atrocity a mere slap on the wrist compared to this appalling set of conditions.I myself am troubled by a religious person's acceptance of this atrocious contracted arrangement by their so-called deity. This is not necessarily limited to the Christian community. However, they are the ones who I have seen that have capitalized on this the most.I would like to watch both sides of this debate to see how religious people can justify these actions and statements and see if my above statements have merit or are totally off mark.Just to be clear that Christianity does focus around the concepts of heaven and hell here are a few excerpt from the Bible which confirm the Christian's belief that those who do not accept God will be thrown into hell for eternity: Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

I am not really sure. I would like my thread to be centered around the religious justification for believing in heaven and hell and how religious people can rationalize this belief while at the same time believing God is good and that they are good knowing many of their friend and family will be spending eternity in excruciating pain and misery that words cannot describe. In other words I believe it to be a moral dilemna and I would like some discussion pro and con for the justification of this belief. I just do not want this to degenerate into a preaching post for the super zealots to proselytize.So I guess the answer is yes, put into the Faith and Belief forum as opposed to Bible Study forum. Thanks!Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Thanks for your response Perdition and Blzebub,I concur that many Christians seem to make the concept of heaven and hell for granted and event almost as an afterthought. It seems that many of these religious people really don't think through the seriousness of the concept of heaven and hell. Here is what I think is happening:a. The majority of Christians really do not believe that hell exists. Also they may compartmentalize the belief in hell so much that choose to deliberately ignore that it exists, which essentially means they do not believe it exists in all intensive purposes.
b. Many Christians only believe the worst offenders are going to hell.
c. Some Christians do not care that the majority of the human race is going to hell. Honestly, I think very few people really think this way unless they are truely self-centered people.
d. Very, very few Christians believe that hell truely exists and do care that the majority of the human race is going to hell and are doing everything in their power to save as many people as possible.Honestly, I think most religious people fall into the first two categories even though the Bible itself clearly indicates only option D is the correct answer. In fact I would speculate that fewer than 1% of Christians are in the D category, otherwise you would have hundreds of people every day pleading with you to be saved from the everlasting, burning fires of hell and doing literally EVERYTHING in their power to pull you from such an aweful horendous existance. Of course this clearly does not happen so I suspect 99% of Christians fall into categories A and B.I was a Christian for over 30 years of my life in some of the most fundamentalist churches in Christiandom and even proselytized on a daily basis. Still, I saw that even in these Churches probably about 5-10% who really proselytized to the extant any reasonable person would expect if they were trying to save as many people from eternal torment in hell.Like I stated earlier, there are though some very few serious fire and brimstone Christians who seem to realize the ramifications of accepting this supposed "reality" of heaven and hell and spend every waking minute reminding everyone of those around them of the danger of the fires of hell, like you said "sometimes whether they like it or not". However, from my own experiences the majority of Christians almost act like hell does not exist.Again I would like some discussion from all sides of this issue including those fire and brimstone Christians.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

And why exactly did God create hell in the first place? And secondly why did God determine this was a good place to send those who supposedly "rejected" Him?I agree with Perdition in this seems to be overkill, no pun intended.Please Iano do not give me the circular reasoning that it is because God is good and we should not question God. Even the belief in God has to abide by the rules of logic.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

As well as the Catholic concept of purgatory, this concept you describe reminds me of the movie "What Dreams May Come" with Robin Williams and Cuba Gooding Jr. in which Dr. Chris Nielson's (Robin Williams) two children die in a car accident and go to heaven, he and his wife seperate due to the emotional burdern and to top it off his wife later commits suicide and goes to a hell of her own making. Eventually he passes away and meets his children in "heaven" (though he does not yet realize they are his children) and then take a trek to the "hell" his wife has created to bring her back and live in eternal bliss as a family.In reality some people on this planet have and currently do live in a hell worse than death i.e. abused and molested children and adults, sex slaves, holocaust victims and survivers, etc, etc, etc.
I find it absolutely horrendous that some religious people can accept believing in a "good" God that has created these conditions much less the supposed hell of the afterlife. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Thank you Iano, I would like to keep this topic, on-topic so to speak.I am accepting for the sake of this argument (not that I actually believe it) that the Bible states unequivocally that heaven and hell exist. If one wants to debate whether the Bible actually states that heaven and hell really exist or the validity of the Bible as a reliable source of information about the world than this should be discussed in another thread.Though you are right in that my preference of what should be discussed in this thread is God's and Christian believers "rationale for Hell" both from a Biblical perspective and an individual's religious beliefs.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Way to boil it down Cavediver .Not only that but I hear many a time where Xstians refer to God as a father. Being a father myself, what sadistic twisted, malevolent, abusive, megalomaniac, self-centered, evil father would not only allow their children to experience pain worse and suffering worse than death itself lasting for ETERNITY but actually CREATE the system that puts these horrible set of circumstances in place.I know I have used this analogy before but I believe it fits well here. The belief in a Biblical heaven and hell created by God, would be like me soaking my house in gasoline, placing a box of matches on a table and then placing my 5 almost 6 year old daughter in the house and then telling her "remember what I told you about playing with matches and the consequences of what could happen if you do". Then I run back over across the street and watch the security cameras as my daughter, ever curious, strikes a match and sets her and the house on fire.Do you really think the courts of law would let you off because you stated that you warned your child? Not only that but in this analogy you are the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. Don't you think the world even more harshly judge you because of your responsibilities and position?Do you see how sick, twisted, and perverted the acceptance of sending people to hell is? It is like one minute people like Iano are stating that God does not send these people to hell, they just choose to go down the road of their own choosing and God has no power over them to stop and the next other Christians state that God is going to judge them on the day of judgment and consciously throw them into the burning lake of fire.Which is it? Does God have a choice in this or not? If not than he is not the all-powerful supernatural being that Christians refer to. If so than he is the sick, megalomaniac that Dawkins speaks of in my opinion.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

I guess me, Ghandi, Mother Teresa and anyone else that doesn't agree with your religious beliefs are going to spend eternity in hell.Don't you feel great about partying it up in heaven for eternity Iano? Do you have relatives and friends going to hell? How will you feel in heaven KNOWING that they are being physically and psychologically tortured and burning alive in a lake of fire FOR ETERNITY? Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

It is sad that the god of the Bible is such a hypocrite. I really do not understand how one (including myself at one period of my life) can accept these two diametrically cognitive dissonant personalities and behaviorial aspects of the Biblical god one being a kind, loving, care-bear and the other a monster worst than human-kinds worst mass murderers. It is actually troubling to think I actually thought like this at one time in my life.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

And how do you define righteous Iano? Can you not use circular logic to define righteous, the Bible, or god? i.e.Christian: We have a choice. To choose to be righteous by following God vice unrighteous by not following God.
Skeptic: What is rightous?
Christian: Following God.
Skeptic: Why is that rightous and who is God?
Christian: God is described in the Bible and to be rightous is following him.
Skeptic: Why should we believe the Bible to be true much less the God described therein?
Christian: Because it says so in the Bible. The Bible says "The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God, they are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good." Psalms 14:1
Skeptic: (sighs in exasperation) I give up, you cannot talk about this rationally without going around in circles.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

So are you saying that everyone who devotes their entire life to literaly saving people's live i.e. a doctor, firefighter, an EMT/Paramedic, police officer etc. does so out of selfish reasons and unrighteous reasons? They are unrightous in their motives to help people? You are kiding me right?Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Do you honestly believe that everyone who rejects the Christian worldview does so because they deliberately want to defy a truely good and righteous God that they actually believe in?You really think we are that stupid?No, the reason many of us reject this worldview are because of several reasons including:a. There is no evidence this god exists and their is no scientific evidence the god of the Bible exists.
b. The god of the Bible is a hypocrite based an open and unbiased reading of this book.
c. Most of the people who ascribe to this worldview do not follow their own preachingThere are very few if any people that wake up everyone morning and say "I believe the God of the Bible exists and is a good God but I choose to disobey him because I want to". To say otherwise is naive.If we had evidence this god existed and that he was good, NO ONE would disbelieve except for the mentally insane or those who are absolutely self-centered and morally impaired i.e. mass murderers, etc (who really probably fall into the first category of the mentally unhinged and insane).

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Wow, that is pretty sadistic Iano. So if you are sitting at the side of your mother's bedside who is battling with cancer and you knew she was not a believer, you would not anguish that she would be spending eternity in hell? You desiring this feeling of anguish would be wiped away when you get to heaven is even more troubling.That is really sad Iano, I had more respect for you than that.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Define righteous. And you know this because what? Because a book or a religious person told you so. Again circular reasoning.Besides if this were true than their would not be a progression in human rights throughout history brought on by the accumulation of human knowledge.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

How is this: circular?Circular reasoning means your are trying to support a claim by restating itself using similar words and implying it is the truth without actually investigating its validity. That is not the case with the above. A definition is not necessarily a claim it is just an attempt to define the meaning of a word which is all I am asking you to do for the word "righteous".Stop avoiding the question.Again, how are you defining righteousness. If you want to use religious words to do so fine but just stating the because the Bible so does nothing to bolster your argument.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World