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Author | Topic: Evolution and Specialness of Humanity | |||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Annafan writes: Well Annafan, if you had kids, would each one be unique? Would twins be unique?
Question: if, as a given, 6 billion people are "unique", then what value is left in the "uniqueness"? How could that kind of "uniqueness" be important?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Prophex writes:
Concise. Lets discuss in chat.(Thursday, 446pm NY Time)
I feel that uniqueness is very important, it gives one the incentive to do better, or think of something that changes the world, rather than the go with the flow, american dream concepts.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Creavolution, I can say that I really don't have a definite opinion concerning evolution or creationism. I will say that I respect your intellect, and I look forward to more discussions with you...perhaps in chat. If you so desire, join us in our topic concerning the information age. http://EvC Forum: What is the impact of the Information Age? -->EvC Forum: What is the impact of the Information Age?
This message has been edited by Phat, 10-08-2005 04:05 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Check out my updated signature!
A youth is a person who is going to carry on what you have started. He will assume control of your cities, states, and nations. He is going to take over your churches, schools, and corporations. You may adopt all the policies you please, but how they are carried out depends on him. So it might be well to pay him some attention. In the soothing thoughts that springOut of human suffering; In the faith that looks through death, In years that bring the philosophic mind.--- Wordsworth
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Yo...hook up in chat if you got a minute
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
JustinC writes: Depends upon your initial perspective. The way I see it, two explanations are also possible: Two explanations are at our disposal: 1.) It evolved just like all of our traits 2.) It was created by a magical being. 1)Love as an emotion was imagined, defined, and quantified through human wisdom and learning. A finite, limited source. 2) Love was initiated and imparted by the Holy God Who created this universe and Who Is the very source of definition for all words, ideas, concepts, and feelings. An infinite, eternal source. You say that human wisdom>created God in our minds.I say that God>created human wisdom or at least initiated the definition of the reality. This message has been edited by Phat, 10-14-2005 12:30 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Charlie writes: You know, Charlie...as I read over this thread, I feel inclined to challenge you a bit. I don't really worry about offending you because I consider you like a younger brother and brothers occasionally argue. You may or may not find the time to answer me or any of us and that is OK too...(we know that you have schoolwork to do) ...this is getting funny again. I could handle it, my beliefs would most likely give me the advantage. They have thus far in school, and in life. First off, what did you think of the cartoon? I am a creationist in the sense that God created everything initially. I believe that He is the source of all definitions of wisdom. All meanings. All emotions. He designed us. He defined us. He even allowed evil to exist...perhaps to temper us. This does not mean that evolution is some Pagan Satanic plot, however. I used to think that way, but I simply can't embrace that belief.
Beyond that, I suggest that you bless those who curse you, love the ones whom disagree with you, and accept the reality of the world as your heart and spirit intuitively understand it. PB This message has been edited by Phat, 10-14-2005 06:47 AM A youth is a person who is going to carry on what you have started. He will assume control of your cities, states, and nations. He is going to take over your churches, schools, and corporations. You may adopt all the policies you please, but how they are carried out depends on him. So it might be well to pay him some attention. In the soothing thoughts that springOut of human suffering; In the faith that looks through death, In years that bring the philosophic mind.--- Wordsworth
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Wiz, you scoudrel! Seeing your new avatar, I am going to rename you Mike The Wizard! Seriously, though...I am very happy that you have become whatever it is that you now are. You are evolving quite nicely! My advice to you is the same as my advice was to prophex. As for that cartoon, I think that it is not only hilarious but very apt. God is not at odds with evolution. He is not at odds with science,although I would quantify that He may well weep over our stubborn refusal to admit that Faith in Him is the best psychology yet found. (I may not be irrefutable but I am absolute in my beliefs!)
The "good book" never makes sense as a literal story. There are as many metaphors, symbols, and allegory as anything that JK Rowling could write about! I look forward to debating with the new, refutable Mike!
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Charlie, Charlie, Charlie! You wanna know what I like about you? (Besides you being a cool teenager?) I like that you take the time to voice your opinions and form your beliefs through affirmation. This is a truly good thing, and I respect you for it!
CP writes: Hold up. How can you know what Mike is thinking? I have communicated with Wiz on a personal e-mail level for as long as I have you and CSP. I see a lot of his journey as being very spiritual. I find Mike's story truly sad. His acceptance of the world outweighed the God that he knew for so long. You like to quote our Lord, Jesus. I respect Jesus more than any human, so I will use some scrips to challenge you, as well.
CP writes: So what can we trust, Charlie? How about scripture?
The physical world should not be trusted, where many people see it as complete and empirical evidence for the ideas of ancients, complete truth, I see it sometimes as fallacy.NIV writes:
John 6:61-7:1-- Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. "You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve. Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God." Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.) CP writes: Are you scared that your faith is being challenged? I say to you: Never be an Ostrich! Don't stick your head in the sand. I enjoy science, I enjoy learning about it in school. But what science says cannot and never will outweigh my belief in God, in Jesus. CP writes: Yes, CP. You are scared that your education will force you to give up your faith! (I think) popular belief will never make me accept something as truth, I find it tragic that you have given up on your faith, for something fabricated by man.CP writes: Now you are making sense, Charlie! He is in us and He will never leave us nor foresake us...no matter what we believe. If you and/or Chris decided to abandon Christianity and become Buddhists, I would still love you like brothers and never would I ever say that any decision that you made was a "tragic mistake." Its not my job to define your beliefs. That is between you and God.
Truth does not collide with the physical realities of this world, it exists in your spirit, and through whatever path you decide to travel on. Realize that your previous faith in God, was stronger than any theory, and idea that was postulated about the Earth.CP writes: Even if evolution were true, you would still be unique, Charlie. Are you afraid that you are morphing into a chimp?
I would not be significant as a human being if evolution would hold true, I would not feel unique, I would lose the qualities that set me apart from the kingdoms of organisms.CP writes: I like you, Charlie!
Resistance to my claims has come in great numbers of replies, because they don't see it my way, they believe in evolution yet, they also feel the "God-given wonders" of everyday life. They tell me that they are co-existant, but I know they are wrong about one thing. Evolution. CP writes: E-mail me and explain this samsara. I don't know it as you do. I will look it up, though! I believe his word, the word that will never pass away, over the word of man. Over the world of man. (world as in samsara, the world that man thinks exists)... Samsara is perpetuated through the ideas of the world, evolution as one of them. This message has been edited by Phat, 10-15-2005 02:18 PM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Charlie the Prophex writes: Remember a great philosopher Plato, he describes allegorically the phenomenom here at evc and in the world of science. Describes accurately samsara. The term means "to flow together" or to pass through states or to wander. Perhaps you mean a definition somewhat like this:Wiki writes: Dang, CP! You seem to have derived much of your belief system from a hybridization of Buddhism, Hinduism, and Christianity. You are deep, YO! Do you understand yourself, however? ...ignorance of the True Self, Brahman, and thus the soul is led to believe in the reality of the temporal, phenomenal world.In Hinduism, it is avidya, or ignorance, of one's true self, that leads to ego-consciousness of the body and the phenomenal world. This grounds one in desire and the perpetual chain of karma and reincarnation. The state of illusion is known as Maya. Lams angry young teenager writes: and yet it is our Wiz...a man who is free to rebel...free to thumb his nose at God...free to attempt to find meaning in rebellion!
A tragic return to samsaraPraise is given for a return to the worldly trap. It's tragic that this conversion has become so widely enjoyed. It's tragic that a man of God, has retreated to visit the physical, to believe the thoughts of man as truth, and begin to disregard that of God because of popular belief and what he has seen, and observed. Twindrix writes: And I also bring up this scripture: Know that the world as many see it, a world of beauty, and of amazement, the visible world, it means nothing, and no truth exists in it. The truth lies in yourself, in the spiritual, and does not manifest itself with calculations of science, and physical observation. Many here say that I am seeing with closed eyes, that I am ignorant of the evidence, that I truly do not see, but it is those who know of this world, know nothing at all.NIV writes: ...... John 9:39-41- Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind." Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.Don't let this world get in the way, it is a constant struggle, a struggle of intellectuals arguing with the believer, telling him that he is flawed because of science, and what is now accepted, the loss of faith signifies defeat. Where biblical scholars give up on creation, noah's ark, I see what is beautiful and true, I see a faith that resonates more loudly than every piece of science ever told. The reality known by the men facing the wall, is the reality that one is limited to when believing whole-heartedly in the realm that is in clear sight. The man who is set free from this realm is ridiculed in the allegory. websters writes:
He is wrong, he is a fool. When the fools are really those who see the wall, who see evidence for evolution, evidences for scientific phenomena, and believe that to be all that exists, and all that matters. They devote themselves to the samsara, the wall, the science. al”le”go”ry : the expression through symbolism of truths or generalizations about human experience ” al”le”gor”i”cal Phat writes: But I don't see science as the samsara..I see it as a necessary thing to know about this world we live in.NIV writes:
There is much to be pondered, O Prophex, the angry young teenager of Lams world!
Mark 8:36-37-- What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? This message has been edited by Phat, 10-17-2005 03:15 AM A youth is a person who is going to carry on what you have started. He will assume control of your cities, states, and nations. He is going to take over your churches, schools, and corporations. You may adopt all the policies you please, but how they are carried out depends on him. So it might be well to pay him some attention. In the soothing thoughts that springOut of human suffering; In the faith that looks through death, In years that bring the philosophic mind.--- Wordsworth
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Ned writes: Ned does have a point, CP. You have the classic case of angst. If you can't answer just say so. That is the intellectually honest thing to do.Websters writes: I think it is because you are searching so passionately for your beliefs through philosophy of spirituality yet you come upon the WALL OF SCIENCE. You dare not go though any door, for you fear you are leaving your beliefs behind. WALLS serve to seperate things. angst \anst\ n [G] : a feeling of anxiety I see only one solution, Twindrix.
Taken from Pink Floyd song lyrics Since, my friend, you have revealed yourDeepest fear, I sentence you to be exposed before Your peers. Tear down the wall! This message has been edited by Phat, 10-17-2005 03:24 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The thread has been revised. The solution is within you.
You know the truth yet you fear the unknown. You are not alone. You are in Communion with the Body of Christ. Jesus was a greater revolutionary than Che. Would Jesus be afraid of scientific thought? This message has been edited by Phat, 10-17-2005 03:30 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Prophex writes: Reread the past threads, Charlie.Start Here. I edited a few, added some things, and gave it to you as best as I could. Keep looking for the evidence. Don't be afraid to be a philosopher/theologian/scientific theorist. Maybe you and True Creation need to talk! TC is a few years older than you, yet young enough to not be pedantic. I can see the evidence, it's obviously there, within the Fossil Record it is plain as day. As sketchy as it is, the evidence simply sways towards evolution.Websters writes: pedant-1 : a person who makes a display of his learning 2 : a formal uninspired teacher pedantic \pi-dan-tik\ adj pedantry \ped-en-tre\ n This message has been edited by Phat, 10-17-2005 03:37 AM A youth is a person who is going to carry on what you have started. He will assume control of your cities, states, and nations. He is going to take over your churches, schools, and corporations. You may adopt all the policies you please, but how they are carried out depends on him. So it might be well to pay him some attention. In the soothing thoughts that springOut of human suffering; In the faith that looks through death, In years that bring the philosophic mind.--- Wordsworth
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Lizard Breath writes: On Earth, we have Public Service. Big Generators. The source of the electricity. When the body breaks, the electro activity ceases and the body ceases to function and decays. There never is a soul. What you perceive as your personna is just a phenomena resulting from electricity flowing in the brain. It's a bi-product of the electro chemical activity and in this paticular enviorment called Planet Earth, this activity can spin up to huge levels allowing the phenomena to morph into complex bi-products like self consciousness. Question for LB: What is the source of the electricity that = life?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
CSP writes: Oh yeah? *goes to google...* Impressive yet basic college. Are you and CP enrolled as A.P> students? Are you taking sociology at DCC? Is it BHS 203. SOCIOLOGY or another one?
I am taking a sociology class at Dutchess Community College. Some points relate to this study.
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