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Author Topic:   Nature belongs to ID
Tangle
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Posts: 8549
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 52 of 146 (661722)
05-09-2012 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Vanessa
05-09-2012 10:52 AM


Re: Thank you
Vanessa writes:

We can not create the simplest life form, so it is premature to say it is simple

Hi Vanessa

Life is anything but simple. I think what was meant is that when it was first formed it was necesarily simpler than say, a dog or a geranium. That much seems obvious.

But don't be too quick to suppose that we're not able to create new life yet.

"Scientists have developed the first cell controlled by a synthetic genome which may allow them to probe the basic machinery of life and engineer bacteria specially designed to solve environmental or energy problems.
The research team, led by Craig Venter, has already chemically synthesized a bacterial genome, and transplanted the genome of one bacterium to another. Now, the scientists have put both methods together, to create what they call a "synthetic cell," although only its genome is synthetic."

http://www.science20.com/...enome_may_save_our_energy_future

The first life would be even simpler than a bacterium, very much simpler in fact - just a bundle of chemicals. Our knowledge of bio-engineering is only just beginning, you can expect an awful lot of prgress in the next 20 years or so.

Btw, I'm typing this on an iPad, you can do quotes - just takes a bit of jiggerypokery. [squrae brackets can be found by pressing the .?123 key, bottom left, then the #+= key. Slash - / - is .?123.]


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 8549
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 94 of 146 (662126)
05-12-2012 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Vanessa
05-12-2012 1:49 PM


Vanessa writes:

What I am advocating is to put aside prejudice (rife in this forum) and with fresh eyes look to Nature to understand evolution.

Unfortunately, what you call 'prejudice' we call knowledge. The knowledge of how life evolved on our planet has been hard won over hundreds of years and involves enormous quanitities of evidence and testing. It enjoys a concensus amongst scientists and there are no competing ideas.

So, if you think you can overturn all this, go ahead, but you're going to need some actual facts to back up your counter-cultural ideas. Argument alone does not work here - you need hard evidence to support your words.

Do you have any?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 8549
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 111 of 146 (662262)
05-14-2012 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Vanessa
05-14-2012 3:40 AM


Vanessa writes:

Many people in this forum mistake 'evolution' to mean a particular theory

The particular theory that evolution is, is, surprisingly, 'the Theory of Evolution.' Accept no substitutes.

"Evolution is any change across successive generations in the heritable characteristics of biological populations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

The approach preferred on this site is what I call 'auto-naturalism', meaning Nature evolves itself. This explanation could perhaps be adequate when evolution is viewed as a very simple process, in which life can spontaneously arise with few chemicals bumping into each other in a heated Petrie dish.

You can, of course, make up any names you like, but unless they conform to science's standard definitions, they are meaningless - just as your words above are.

Evolution is not a simple process and life does not spontaneously arise from petri dishes full of hot chemicals. (But if it did it would not be evolution, it would be abiogenesis.)

So please put your straw men back in their boxes and argue from what science actually says rather than what you imagine that it says.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 8549
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 141 of 146 (663297)
05-23-2012 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Vanessa
05-23-2012 2:46 AM


Vanessa writes:

Great. I will present an alternative proposal for evolution.

Great. I'll notify the Nobel Prize committee members.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Vanessa, posted 05-23-2012 2:46 AM Vanessa has taken no action

  
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