Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies?

Naa, it was a friendly little tweak, that's all.

You're acting worse than a liberal these days, you are being positively ill-tempered and unfair.No it is not like the bible codes, there are references to celestial events in connection with Jesus' birth and crucifixion. It's in the CONTENT of the Bible itself, not something imposed on the text.Since I haven't claimed anything as evidence relating to the gospel in the stars it would be just a curmudgeonly ill-tempered false claim to make.An eclipse is predictable in time because the movements of the solar system are predictable and its cause is known and can be tracked easily through time, but something that needs to be identified as a "star" could be all kinds of things in all kinds of time frames. Most of the candidates, however, would last more than a few minutes, a conjunction for a few days at least.Don't be such a crab.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

By the way have you watched ANY of the video?

I have to make a correction since I've been watching the video again: he dismisses the comet on a number of grounds, one being that historically it's normally regarded as an omen of doom, and the other being that there is no comet in the Chinese astronomical records for the years near Christ's birth. He dismisses the nova because it would be bright enough for everyone to have seen it, and because it also doesn't appear in the Chinese records. He discusses these things around 25.00 in the video.You really should watch it. You're making a lot of unwarranted suppositions based on ignorance.

Perhaps as a way to bring this discussion to a close I think I'll post the video again. It does include astrological as well as astronomical information in its interpretation of the scriptures.

So I'll spell out the signs and wonders for whoever might be interested:About 32:00 He identifies Jupiter the "king planet" making three close conjunctions with Regulus, the "king star" in September of 3BC the month of Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year. This conjunction is occurring in the sign of Leo the Lion, the animal representative of the Tribe of Judah from which the Messiah is prophesied to come, and at the same time the constellation of Virgo rises right behind Leo, the woman of Revelation "clothed in the sun, with a crown of twelve stars on her head and the moon at her feet," a sliver of a New Moon because this is Rosh Hashana which starts with a new moon. Sohere's the astrology along with the astronomy, but it's all in the same sky. (all this starts about 32.00, goes to 42)He considers that maybe this isn't the birth of Jesus but the conception so he checks the sky nine months later, in late June of 2BC. This is where the bright star shows up, the conjunction of Jupiter, the king/father star, with Venus, the mother star, which he says is shown in planetariums around Christmas (if he already knew this I don't know why he is searching for it, but anyway) This seems to put Jesus' birth toward the end of June of 2BC.But he doesn't seem to be particularly interested in this for some reason. He goes on to the Magi and their journey to see the newborn King. He tracks Jupiter leading the way and shows that it stands still over Bethlehem-- because it has come to the point where it turns retrograde, where a planet appears to stop moving. He also shows that this occurred on December 25 of 2BC. Hm? The date the Magi brought gifts to the then six-months-old baby was the same as our Christmas? Well, that's what the software shows, which is interesting if he has his dates right for the other events. Not Jesus' birth but the visit of the Magi. Odd but there it is. (47.00)He reviews what he's shown so far, and then about 49:00 he goes on to talk about the crucifixion. First he quotes the prophet Joel as Peter quoted him on Pentecost, "I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below... [blood, fire, smoke, darkened sun, blood moon....]" (51-52) From 53-55+ he gives clues to the date of the crucifixion, concluding that it had to have happened in a year when Nisan 14 occurred on a Friday. That plus some other clues take him to April 3rd, 33AD. He finds there was a blood moon on that date that occurred about the time Jesus died and the NASA program also shows that the sign Virgo (the woman of Revelation) rises with the blood moon at her feet, rounding out what he calls the celestial poem that started on Rosh Hashana in September of 3BC.If you aren't interested maybe someone else is. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It was not yet in retrograde, it had just stopped before going retrograde, that is why it looked like it had stopped. I understand retrograde just fine. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

One more thing that for some reason he didn't report in the video: The crucifixion of course occurred in the sign of Aries the ram (April), symbolizing the Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sins. Virgo the virgin rises with the blood moon at her feet but not clothed in the sun because this isn't her month; the ram is clothed in the sun.On the DVD which I have, at the very end he gives a shot of the earth from the moon on the day of the crucifixion, and it shows the earth against the backdrop of the constellation/sign of Aries the ram.(Virgo is in September, exactly opposite Aries in April; the blood moon means the moon is in the shadow of the earth, that is, directly opposite the sun, so if Earth is viewed from the (blood) moon on that day --at the time of Jesus' death -- the sun would be in Aries behind the Earth which would be situated in that sign. I must admit this gives me the shivers.)I haven't looked it up again but my nephew tells me the earth is located where the heart of the ram would be, showing God's love to humanity ... that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him... Celestial poem indeed.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Yes I didn't take that into account, you're right.BUT IF the star was Jupiter then the idea would be that the Magi saw it right over Bethlehem in the phase where it had stopped before turning retrograde. It would appear stopped for some days so it would keep returning to that position too. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

No, I just didn't want to give NN any credit for anything, but I had a change of heart and decided to admit I'd missed that point and corrected it in the post.It's not about naturalistic explanations since there's nothing in the video that isn't naturalistic.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It has to have appeared to be right over Bethlehem, though, at some period of time, and the orbital stopping point makes the best explanation for that statement in the scripture. Jupiter might not be the star, but in that case it's hard to imagine any other object that would fit the description any better. The Magi were steeped in knowledge of the objects in the sky so the description may be reflecting a short-lived astronomical event that would nevertheless be important in their frame of reference. As Larson points out, nobody else had taken notice of the star, including Herod who had to ask when it appeared, so whatever it was it was something the Magi were in a position to appreciate though others weren't.It would have to have been a natural occurrence and a pausing Jupiter seems to best fit the role. Alternate explanations seem less likely. It would be unlikely for the star to have been a miracle, for instance, since that wouldn't require the Magis' special knowledge to recognize it, and because none of the other celestial events marking Christ's life and death is anything but completely natural (in this study of course). That's what makes this study so exciting, that it's all natural phenomena as shown by a scientifically exact instrument, this Astronomy program called Starry Night that Larson says is used by NASA where precision is of course essential. What I sketched of the events covered in the video shows it's all objective, in Message 440 and Message 444. Your objection to astrology in the context of a Biblical study is understandable but wrong in this case since all the phenomena in the Zodiac are objectively existing phenomena whose traditional meanings just happen to fit the scriptural descriptions and prophecies surrounding Christ's life and death.So I wouldn't expect the star to be anything but a natural occurrence either. The conjunction of Jupiter and Venus would have been very bright -- he says brighter than any other occurrence anyone alive would have seen -- and if that's the star that brought the Magi west it makes sense that even after the conjunction ended Jupiter would continue to be the bright object they'd follow to Bethlehem.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : Sorry, keep hearing the video and finding things to correct

David, you obviously haven't looked at the video, or thought about what I wrote about it. Using astronomy software this lawyer looked at the sky around the time of Jesus' birth, having investigated the questions of the best date, and found good reasons, which I've spelled out, for Jupiter to be the star, first in conjunction with Venus and then as the Magi traveled to Bethlehem. Larson, the lawyer allowed six months for travel time from Babylon, about 700 miles.You are welcome to have a different opinion, but I believe there's good reason to accept Larson's study over your belief it was an angel.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

According to Larson's study, that wasn't the reason they traveled to Bethlehem; it was the conjunction of Jupiter with Venus, making the brightest celestial object in a lifetime. That would have prompted the trip, but the conjunction would have separated after that, leaving Jupiter for them to follow. Whatever stopping right over Bethlehem means would have been the striking thing, not the stopping because of changing direction as such, and the timing of events would be of major importance. The video starts with celestial events in September and particularly on Rosh Hashana of 3BC, with a triple conjunction of Jupiter with Regulus in Leo, followed by Virgo rising with the sun, with the new moon of Rosh Hashana at her feet, all interestingly related to biblical prophecy; then moves 9 months forward to June of 2BC where the bright Jupiter-Venus conjunction is found, then to Bethlehem six months later with the Magi following Jupiter which stopped over the town on December 25, 2BC.But more interesting I think is his figuring out the date of the crucifixion as April 3, 33AD, in the sign of Aries the Ram of course, and seeing the lunar eclipse begin at the hour of Jesus' death followed by the rising of Virgo the virgin with the blood moon at her feet.All these natural events in relation to scripture IS exciting.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

WATCH THE VIDEO. Larson was very careful to match Jupiter with scripture ON NINE POINTS. If you're going to have an opinion at least find out what you're talking about.

The point was what it would have meant to the Magi who understood all that. And yes I understand it all pretty well, but they would have seen significance where I wouldn't have.