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Author | Topic: Yes, The Real The New Awesome Primary Thread | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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EvC isn't a court of law and in a discussion like this, tp treat Stalin and Mao as if they'd never committed their millions of murders just because they were never brought to trial, is a very strange and dangerous deception. It ought to be possible to discuss the evidence in the case of Hillary without pretending she's innocent enough to be President if she's not.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: EvC isn't a court of law and in a discussion like this, tp treat Stalin and Mao as if they'd never committed their millions of murders just because they were never brought to trial, is a very strange and dangerous deception. It ought to be possible to discuss the evidence in the case of Hillary without pretending she's innocent enough to be President if she's not.
Perhaps you might have a point if anyone had treated Stalin and Mao as if they'd never committed their millions of murders just because they were never brought to trial, is a very strange and dangerous deception. But of course, so far that has never happened. You really need to try to be honest Faith instead of continuously misrepresenting what has been said.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Gosh, a whole new level of nitpicking pedantry, complete with the accusation of liar too.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: Gosh, a whole new level of nitpicking pedantry, complete with the accusation of liar too. Understanding, as an American, the basics of the rule of law is not nitpicking or pedantry and there was no accusation of you lying, rather a simple observation of the fact. To be a criminal (assuming you do believe in the US Constitution and Rules of Law), one must first be tried in a court of law and convicted. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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That someone is innocent, until proven guilty in a validly constituted Court of law is one of the principal cornerstones of the rule of law - not nitpicking pedantry about terminology. It *is* a bit nitpicky today - given the point was acerbically conceded back March 30th: Message 118quote: This objection is about law. Not moral discourse. We can have opinions. Is Pistorius a murderer or a negligent gun user? OJ? Is Stephen Avery? Did he used to be? Does it change if the court's decision does? From a moral stance? Was the guy that mugged me a mugger or should I describe him to you as an 'alleged' mugger since he was never convicted of that crime and technically I never verified his criminal record? So either you burden discussion with insisting people in daily lives use 'alleged' or War Crimer (unlike many crimes, War Crime ends with 'crime' making the noun for the moral perpetrator difficult to grammatically create without using the natural 'criminal' setting off these 'but law says...' comments Surely we can understand dronester's meaning and not worry about the awkwardness of language and making our lives more difficult by insisting on pedantry rather than trying to understand one another. So given we started with 'Hillary is a good candidate' or somesuch and have ended on a 2 day loop of TECHNICALLY, HITLER WAS NOT A WAR CRIMINAL. I think we might need to assess a little here. For some fresh input, here are some non-typical reasons that have been given for voting Republican:
quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: Nonreligious Questions
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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I am really trying to figure out Hilary's appeal.
It's simple. She can get things done. And she has a better chance of winning in the general election. Sanders is an obscure politician whom most people had not heard of, until recently. His policy proposals are reasonable. I prefer them over Hillary's. But a president does not have the authority to carry them out. They are ideas that have to be won at the grass roots. Hillary knows how to work the grass roots. Sanders doesn't. The last time that the Democrats had a candidate like Sanders was in 1972. It was George McGovern, and he was whipped in the general election. At present, polls suggest that Sanders could win. But the Republicans have not yet aimed their big guns at him. When they do, they will say that he is a commie pinko, and they will use his own campaign speeches for that. His support will drop. By contrast, they have been attacking Hillary for 20 years, and she seems to be able to deal with their attacks. Yes, I wish there were a better candidate than Hillary. But Sanders is not such a candidate.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Hey, folks, I have a request.
While the actions and history of the candidates, who’s a criminal, who’s a jerk and the like (and even what constitutes such characterizations) are quite appropriate topics in this thread, the ever on-going squabble this discussion has devolved into is not. This has gone full circle twice that I can count. Opinions have been expressed, challenged and responded. Evidence has been presented, challenged and responded. Multiple times. If you are compelled to go on yet another set of cycles then please take it to a different thread. The Wisconsin primaries are coming up Tuesday next. There is a concerted effort by a large group of Republican insiders attempting to derail the Trump juggernaut in Wisconsin and the level of success they have (or not) will be vital to the remainder of the Republican primary season and the resultant nomination. I do not want the results lost in the detritus of this level of discussion. Thus my request. Please take your fucking war crimes and your fucking dueling dictionaries and get the hell off my thread! Much appreciated. Thank you.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
removed after reading AZPaul3's request. Sorry
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
The Republican effort to deal a blow, but hardly a knockout, to the hard-charging Trump train may be showing some signs of success.
quote: The Republican tone has become decidedly nasty(er) in the past few weeks with both Trump and Cruz slinging insults and accusations at each other over their wives and post-nomination support.
quote: Other polls show Trump and Cruz running very close. If Trump loses Wisconsin the crux will be by how much. If he loses by 10% or more then the stop Trump movement will have gained some legs to go into New York and the northeastern states. If he wins or gets away with more than just a handful the delegates then he can continue to steamroll into Cleveland. Stay tuned.
sourcesource Edited by AZPaul3, : fixed sources
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I wonder what the Democrats would rather run against, Il Donald or some other candidate?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped! |
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The Republican effort to deal a blow, but hardly a knockout, to the hard-charging Trump train may be showing some signs of success. Trump himself is showing an ability to screw up cornflakes. His remarks regarding punishing women for getting an abortion did not seem to pander to any particular segment of the population; at least not in the way that some of his other off kilter positions did. His claims to be his own foreign policy advisor when he clearly knows diddly squat did not seem to work either. In both cases he has had to back off completely. In both cases the appearance is that Trump is a buffoon. And accomplishing that when your opponent is Cruz takes some doing. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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She can get things done. What things will she get done with this power, though? I mean, really its the only pragmatic argument I've seen I can really understand. What makes you think Bernie won't be able to specifically, if you don't mind?
Sanders is an obscure politician whom most people had not heard of, until recently. So...a politician. I'd never seen or heard anyone talk much of anybody but Trump and Clinton before they started their run.
His policy proposals are reasonable. I prefer them over Hillary's. But a president does not have the authority to carry them out. They are ideas that have to be won at the grass roots. Hillary knows how to work the grass roots. Sanders doesn't. Of course, I assume the American media has shown this picture like a billion times right?
quote: quote: quote: wiki
Over $2,700 a plate Clinton? Clinton, Yale Law School, Law Partner, board of directors at Wal-Mart, First Lady, Senator. This is the path of a grass roots expert? The woman that got defeated by Obama, at the grass root level? Am I missing something obvious here?
The last time that the Democrats had a candidate like Sanders was in 1972. It was George McGovern, and he was whipped in the general election. By the same peculiar logic of temporal imagination Hillary and Obama have never had a chance either. I think there is a spectre of McGovenism haunting America....
It was George McGovern, and he was whipped in the general election. At present, polls suggest that Sanders could win. But the Republicans have not yet aimed their big guns at him. Sure, but guns will be firing in all directions. Though the Democrats have recently been poor shooters...
By contrast, they have been attacking Hillary for 20 years, and she seems to be able to deal with their attacks. I think 'voted for Iraq' is going to be bigger gun to fire than 'is a commie' in 2016. Republicans won't make it direct of course (though Trump will and has already - if its him). The Republicans are going to go after Democrats on issues of conscience and so on, and probably pay to have it done in an apparent liberal voice.
Yes, I wish there were a better candidate than Hillary. But Sanders is not such a candidate. I think Sanders beats Obama to be honest. And Obama beats Hillary. But I guess I get it. I guess it's time for America to prepare to shift the Overton window over to the right again. Next year Republicans will find some actual Neo-Nazis to the primaries, maybe they can convince the Dems to vote for Dem. Candidate: Trump
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
I think Sanders beats Obama to be honest.
I doubt that.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
In both cases the appearance is that Trump is a buffoon. And accomplishing that when your opponent is Cruz takes some doing. He has not just looked but been the buffoon ever since he announced his candidacy. The big problem is every time he says something considered sticking his foot in his mouth the Trumpettes cheer even louder. For all his trying he can't seem to say anything stupid enough or asinine enough to quell this significant rising hoard of the american right. Cruz is just a thoroughly discredited, despised, bible-thumping asshole. Not nearly the entertainment value of Trump but just as dangerous with his own rising body of inane rightwingnuts. We knew large segments of the american body politic were disgruntled and sore as hell but I don't think we realized just how sick in the head we had become. There has got to be an antidote out there in the stormy waters of this political sea. Certainly the great tide of centrism will arise out of the middle to wash the stupid away. Won't it? Won't it? Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes: There has got to be an antidote out there in the stormy waters of this political sea. Certainly the great tide of moderation will arise out of the middle to wash the stupid away. Won't it? Won't it? Il Duce was considered an easily controlled buffoon. Hitler was considered an easily controlled buffoon. Franois Duvalier was considered an easily controlled buffoon but a good doctor. Manuel Antonio Noriega was considered an easily controlled buffoon. Joseph-Desir Mobutu was considered an easily controlled buffoon.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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