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Author | Topic: Testing The Christian Apologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
What has one got to do with the other? YOU are the one who claims to believe in Jesus, yet YOU are the one who rejects what He supposedly said. Of course I "dare" to point that out. Whatever I believe is totally irrelevant to the inconsistency of what YOU claim to believe.
You have stated publically that you don't believe that Jesus even existed. And yet you dare to quote that same book to attempt to hold me to what Jesus said. Phat writes:
Authority has nothing to do with it.
You have no authority to lean on to support that assertion. Phat writes:
As I said, I have no evidence at all that He existed and neither do you. How is that "insufficient"?
... you have insufficient evidence to prove your assertion that Jesus never existed. Phat writes:
I don't use atheist authors for my arguments. You know that. Go ahead and attempt to trot out one of those pansy atheist authors... (And that's a pretty childish attempt at an insult, by the way.)
Phat writes:
Bring your "debunking" here.
...they have been debunked repeatedly also. Phat writes:
No they don't. Scientists reject evidence all the time."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That has nothing to do with anything in the post you're replying to. i specifically said, "I don't use atheist authors for my arguments." Seems harris was challenging the word used for virgin in Isaiah. "Alma"."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
The thing is, there was no reason to insult atheists at large in the first place. It was childish. Of course you are not going to get the slightest benefit of the doubt from some here."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
He clearly intended to insult atheists. That's a logical fallacy right there. Even if all atheists are pansies, that doesn't strengthen his argument. Depends on what Phat had in mind when he said it."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What has that got to do with anything? I'm trying to get you to address the issues, not the personalities.
Atheists have no more right to be activists than they claim Christians do. Phat writes:
I have no idea who that is. See above. The Four Horsemen are educating an entire generation of impressionable college students to throw religion away...."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I also don't care who it is. I wish you'd just address what I post. This explains it"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You really haven't presented anything so far. I have clarified. I want to see the argument for something like the snake lying and I want to see the justification for contradicting what the Bible says.
Would you call him an honest apologist> Ringo is waiting for one...though I have no idea why he has rejected the ones I have presented so far. Phat writes:
In this context, that will do. An "evidenced fact" would be a Biblical reason for contradicting the Bible. I think he defines honesty as always an evidenced fact rather than a belief."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So bring us the argument that they use. Bring us the scriptures that explain the doctrine.
First of all, its virtually a consensus within Christianity that the snake lied. Phat writes:
Yes, you've made it clear that you don't care about the truth.
I could care less about your claims to the contrary. Phat writes:
That's exactly what I'm doing. And you haven't put up any defense.
If you want to indict a given apologist you will have to indict all of us (who believe that the snake lied). Phat writes:
You sure do, if you want to be taken seriously here.
Quite simply, I dont have to prove anything. Phat writes:
You're reinforcing that claim by not putting up any counter-argument.
If you claim we all make it up, so be it. Phat writes:
An appeal to popularity is worthless. (And I'll remind you again that the appeal to popularity fails anyway: Christianity is a minority religion.)
Its a majority opinion within Christianity. Phat writes:
No. Drop the snake stuff already. It's time for you to make a substantive response to it. Stop claiming matter-of-factly that the snake lied. Stop saying that it's "stupid" to claim the snake told the truth. Say something intelligent about it instead."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Romans 5:12. That's Paul's opinion, not enough to overturn Genesis.
By one man sin entered the world and by sin then death. I don't remember where it says that. Faith writes:
Not "in the day that thou eatest thereof" as God said in Genesis 2:17.
Because of their sin they died though it took a thousand years in their case... Faith writes:
...every other kind of death too, such as being eating by dragons...."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Or he was wrong.
Paul has the same authority as Moses had. Nothing he says can "overturn" anything in the OT, so we know he is explaining it. Faith writes:
Chapter and verse?
And that was known anyway by all believers before Paul, they all knew death had entered by sin. Faith writes:
Clearly not - unless you corrupt the word "day" like you corrupt the word "die". They DID die "in the day" they ate of it..."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm trying to teach you not to swallow everything you were taught without thinking about it.
That's also what I was taught. What is it that you are trying to teach,ringo? Phat writes:
So CHALLENGE it. Give us something substantive instead of just parroting. Don't give me this fluff about the book says what the book says. That statement itself would get challenged in any Bible class."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Of course. The Bible (the canon that we're used to, anyway) is 66 books. Of course they're not 100% consistent, any more than Treasure island and Gone With the Wind and The Catcher in the Rye are 100% consistent with each other.
So in other words, the Bible *can* be contradicted or corrected based on an evidenced fact. Phat writes:
Exactly. Any yahoo can point out where the apologists are clearly lying. Belief is entirely irrelevant.
An apologist can't explain what the Bible means yet some yahoo who writes a book claiming Jesus is a myth can? Phat writes:
On every one of your watches. Not on my watch."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
They really don't though. You don't have to go pat Genesis 1 and 2 to find major disagreements. The amazing thing about the ***** is that all 66 of its books work together in a supernatural way despite the independent writings that make it up, all working together toward a single supernatural revelation of the mind of God."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It is. They critically evaluate the Bible as if it is an ordinary book. In fact, even if it wasn't there would be no way to tell that it wasn't. You can't use the book to back up the book.
Phat writes:
If there is a Satan, he's the pied piper of Christians. Satan is very clever on planet earth and is the pied piper of intellectuals.quote:It's the "elect" (or those who think they are) who will be deceived, not the ones who don't believe in Christ at all. Phat writes:
See above. The arrogance doesn't suit you. Kool-aid is being drunk, but it is not we who are consuming it."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You don't need to walk away. You need to think. At some point, I just need to walk away."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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