NvC-1: What is the premise of Naturalism in Biology?

Now, we are discussing the core of whether naturalism is correct or not: the natural laws govern the info-carrier, not the info-content. Such evidence is everywhere that the natural laws don’t work when it comes to info-content.Very simple, the natural laws cannot explain why 1+1=2.The natural laws cannot explain why the liquid in river is called as WATER in English, but EAU in French. The natural laws cannot explain why pain means uncomfortable feeling in English, while in French it means Bread, a food made of wheat flour; and the English word "gift" means "poison" in German.For the translation bioinformatic process, the natural laws work for the info-carriers: the H-bond between codon on mRNA and anticodon on tRNA, the binding between acceptor stem and amino acid; but the natural laws cannot explain the info-content: why a tRNA with the anticodon UUU is linked to an amino acid Lys.For tRNA, scientists know exactly the molecular structure and interaction, and can perform any computational and experimental research they want. Quantum mechanics includes all the theories of molecular structure. Density functional theory provides an accurate and fast method for the calculation of molecular structure. The tRNA molecule contains less than 100 nucleotides and can be easily calculated without using supercomputer. The development of science and technology in the future cannot provide any new concepts, theories or experimental means. A simple fact is that tRNA contains the info-content: the translation from genetic-information to amino-acid-information, which is not governed by the natural laws, as same as 1+1=2.No matter how science and technology develop in future, the natural laws cannot explain these questions, even the simplest formula 1+1=2.Can your guys provide just one example of how the natural laws control info-content?

Of course, I focus on biology and genetic information. However, we first need to understand information in general, then we can understand genetic information in special. We all have experiences in math, language, etc., so it is easy for us to discuss the general properties of information from these aspects.Apart from the natural laws, you even dare not even mention any other rules that exist in the world. The bioinformatic processes are usually controlled by regulations rather than natural laws. These regulations are discovered by biologists (I believe most of them are traditional biologists). But you don't dare even to mention these regulations.You didn’t explain anything, because the natural laws cannot answer these questions.You mentioned that mutations occur by natural laws. This is a good topic, we can discuss later.

The rocks’ photo has nothing to do with what we discussed about. Rocks are made up only of matter, while life is made up of matter and non-material elements such as genetic information.You wrote Pretty sure natural laws can explain that. Why can't natural laws explain that? and Why can't natural laws explain that? Well, please explain one of my questions, for example, 1+1=2, or The natural laws cannot explain why the liquid in river is called as WATER in English, but EAU in French.

As for that natural laws cannot govern info-content, I copy a paragraph of RLW(Message 303) here: Suppose that I download an English eBook Hamlet to my smartphone by wireless. At this time, the carrier is electromagnetic wave containing countless 0s and 1s codes. The transmission of electromagnetic wave is controlled by Maxwell equation of electromagnetic field. However, how these 0s and 1s codes express Hamlet depends on encoding rule, English vocabulary and grammar, and has nothing to do with Maxwell equation of electromagnetic field. Information and information-carrier obey different rules.As for that natural laws cannot produce info-content, here I just point out that natural forces are purposeless, while all organisms live on purpose for surviving and reproducing. Rocks in the photo of Taq(Message 308) are made up only of matter and live without purpose. Organisms live on purpose due to that they contain non-material elements. How does the purposeless natural forces lead to purposeful non-material elements such as genetic information? This is impossible in logic.The key is to distinguish info-carrier and info-content.

The conclusion is drawn from the analyses of facts. My conclusion is that God created life on Earth and gave life the ability to survive and evolve. There is a long way to go before reaching the conclusion.

I wrote in RLW(Message 285): If you input numbers 3 and 2 into a calculator. The results for the operations +, -, * and / are 5, 1, 6 and 1.5, respectively. No matter what operation the calculator does, every step follows natural laws. Why are the results different? Because electronic signals go through different electronic circuits for different operations. Therefore, the math operation rules embodied in the electronic circuits or electronic devices. The electronic devices of these math operations are designed according to the rules of logical circuits rather than natural laws. Of course, the operation of electronic signals in logical circuits follows natural laws.So, what is the answer to the question Why are the results different for different operations +, -, * and /?
Answer 1: because all these operations follow the natural laws.
Answer 2: because different operations go through different logical circuits.As for the translation process, what is the answer to the question why codon AAA on mRNA corresponds to amino acid Lys, while codon AAU on mRNA to Asn?
Answer 1: because the translation process follows the natural laws.
Answer 2: because the Genetic Code is embodied in tRNAs. The tRNA with anticodon UUU (H-bonded with the complementary codon AAA on the mRNA) has an acceptor stem connected to amino acid Lys, and the tRNA with anticodon UUA (H-bonded with the complementary codon AAU on mRNA) has an acceptor stem connected to amino acid Asn.

Suppose John keeps a copy of Hamlet written by Shakespeare, which his grandfather bought 100 years ago. More than 100 years later, the papers on which his book was printed turned yellow due to an oxidation reaction, but the script Hamlet is still the original script, exactly the same as 100 years ago, with no sentences, no words, no letters changed. This means that the carrier of the information - paper — does follow the natural laws, but information itself — the script Hamlet - does not follow the natural laws at all.

The vocabulary of a language is a common agreement of the population who use the language. The recently prevalent coronavirus, known as COVID-19, is named by WHO. Many professional words are named by special professional committee. Imagine that in an ancient English speaking population, someone pointed to the liquid in a river and at the same time pronounced WATER, and others accepted it, then WATER means the liquid in river. The same thing happened for the ancient French speaking population, but the person pointed to the liquid in a river and at the same time pronounced EAU.As for the Genetic Code or the tRNA that embodied it , as the authors of the review paper Origin and evolution of the genetic code: The universal enigma pointed out, despite extensive and, in many cases, elaborate attempts to model code optimization, ingenious theorizing along the lines of the coevolution theory, and considerable experimentation, very little definitive progress has been made. It seems that the two-pronged fundamental question: ‘Why is the genetic code the way it is and how did it come to be?’, that was asked over 50 years ago, at the dawn of molecular biology, might remain pertinent even in another 50 years.Therefore, the meaning of a word is assigned by common agreement, not due to the word itself. This is very easy to understand from the information point of view. The meaning of a word has nothing to do with natural laws. If one tries to use natural laws to study why the liquid in river is called as WATER in English, but EAU in French, she/he will never find the answer, because natural laws has nothing to do with the meaning of a language’s word. Obviously, the translation from WATER in English to EAU in French or vice versa has nothing to do with natural laws.The same is true of the Genetic Code or tRNA, which is a bioinformatic process, that does not follow the natural laws. As I wrote in RLW(Message 306): The development of science and technology in the future cannot provide any new concepts, theories or experimental means. A simple fact is that tRNA contains the info-content: the translation from genetic-information to amino-acid-information, which is not governed by the natural laws.

What can the natural laws or, the same, the laws of physics do? Two things —
- Define the interaction between matters, and
- Determine the structure, nature and behavior of matters.Therefore, physics is everywhere. In addition to controlling the structure, nature and behavior of matters, all non-material elements in our spacetime are embodied in a certain form of matter, and therefore physics also controls all physicochemical processes of the carriers of all non-material elements.However, physics is not everything, because physics only governs all physicochemical processes of matter, physics cannot govern all processes of non-material elements.
Physics cannot calculate numbers;
Physics has no sense of humor;
Physics cannot think, it does not know how to write messages for this Forum;
Physics has no purpose;
Physics cannot design any hardware and/or software;
Physics has no language function, because materials do not need to communicate with each other;
Physics cannot make decision as physics does not understand logic;
Physics cannot produce any non-material elements;
There are a lot, lot of rules, regulations and laws other than the laws of physics in the world:
2+3=5 and 2*3=6;
WATER in English is translated to EAU in French, or vice versa;
Encoding Hamlet for transmitting wirelessly and decoding for displaying on smartphone;
Translate genetic information AAA on mRNA to amino acid information Lys to make protein;
Software languages: JavaScript, Python, PHP, C++,

All these information processes, including bioinformatic processes, follow their own rules, not the natural laws.

You wrote Cavendish calculated the gravitational constant in his famous experiments. Maxwell and others were able to measure the permitivity and permiability of space which allowed them to calculate the speed of light. Einstein was able to calculate the distortion of spacetime due to velocity.What I wrote is Physics cannot calculate numbers.Cavendish, Maxwell and Einstein are PHYSICISTS, not PHYSICS.As for other questions, you can find the answers from my messages. There is no need to repeat it again.

Essentially all you have is assertions without any actual evidence. Well, one of my assertion is that Physics cannot calculate numbers. How to provide evidence for non-existing thing? I don’t know. You guys should give an example to show that physics can calculate numbers to prove that my assertion is wrong, as Taq(327) did. Unfortunately, Taq proved that PHYSICISTS can calculate, not PHYSICS can calculate.The translation process proceeds by chemistry, following natural law. You guys repeat, repeat and repeat such assertions. Taq(Message 327) wrote Physics underlies neurobiology which produces all of those things. Physics underlies neurobiology which produces all of those things. These assertions are the same as Physics is everywhere I wrote. But why don’t you guys try to explain Translate genetic information AAA on mRNA to amino acid information Lys to make protein? WATER in English is translated to EAU in French, or vice versa?Bioinformatic laws. Of course. The Genetic Code is the bioinformatic law of translation process. There is always regulation for bioinformatic process. The following is the content of Chapter 16: Gene Expression of the textbook, Biology / OpenStax
Chapter 16: Gene Expression
16.1 Regulation of Gene Expression
16.2 Prokaryotic Gene Regulation
16.3 Eukaryotic Epigenetic Gene Regulation
16.4 Eukaryotic Transcription Gene Regulation
16.5 Eukaryotic Post-transcriptional Gene Regulation
16.6 Eukaryotic Translational and Post-translational Gene Regulation
16.7 Cancer and Gene RegulationThere are no such regulations in chemistry, because chemical processes involve only matter, not information.

Your statement is against logic: as I pointed out in what physics can do, what physics cannot, physics cannot calculate numbers, how can any calculations are ultimately being performed by physics?The same is WATER in English is translated to EAU in French, or vice versa: physics and chemistry don’t know languages at all, how physicochemical processes in brain can translate language?

On what I wrote in RLW(332)

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There is always regulation for bioinformatic process. The following is the content of Chapter 16: Gene Expression of the textbook, Biology / OpenStax
Chapter 16: Gene Expression
16.1 Regulation of Gene Expression
16.2 Prokaryotic Gene Regulation
16.3 Eukaryotic Epigenetic Gene Regulation
16.4 Eukaryotic Transcription Gene Regulation
16.5 Eukaryotic Post-transcriptional Gene Regulation
16.6 Eukaryotic Translational and Post-translational Gene Regulation
16.7 Cancer and Gene Regulation

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PaulK’s comment -

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your bioinformatics laws are merely higher level descriptions of physical processes.

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It seems that you know physical processes cannot explain these regulations, so you suggest higher level descriptions of physical processes. What does it mean? If you could explore and find the higher level descriptions of physical processes which can explain these regulations, you would win Nobel prize.Taq’s comment —

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All of that is controlled by enzyme kinetics and binding between complementary nucleotide bases. It's all natural processes.

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The level of your comment is the same as the level of Taq(Message 267) comment on translation that It is the natural laws of hydrogen bonding that governs the binding between the complementary bases in the tRNA and the mRNA codon.For Taq(Message 267), the key point is translation, but in your opinion the key point is the H-bond.For Taq(Message 335), the key point is regulations, the control of these bioinformatic processes, but in your opinion the key point is biochemistry, which doesn’t know control at all.The basic principle of genetic processes is to produce the right protein at the right time, right place and right quantity. Producing right protein is performed by transcription and translation processes, while at the right time, right place and right quantity is determined by these regulations: they control the bioinformatic processes.

Logical analysis is a very important and powerful tool in science and even in daily life. In many cases, people do not need to know the details of the structure or process, but they can make a judgement: is this OK or not.For the translation between English and French, there must be a table of corresponding vocabulary, such as WATER in English < = > EAU in French. Obviously, this is not a chemical or physical process, but an information process. There is no need to discover the detail of how the mind operates, people can make the judgement.

If all bioinformatic processes could be broken down into a series of chemical and physical processes, people would never know how the basic principle of genetic processes — to produce the right protein at the right time, right place and right quantity — works. It you have time, you can read p.103 — p.108 of my book Darwinian-Naturalism is Pseudoscience: Science Studies What God Created. In that section, I analyzed the transcription regulation of lac operon of E. coli, and demonstrated that the function of regulation is similar to logic circuits in digital circuits, or similar to IF sentences in software.