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Author Topic:   The problems of big bang theory. What are they?
Dr Jack
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Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 49 of 389 (430130)
10-23-2007 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by TyberiusMax
10-23-2007 11:16 AM


Re: The bitter simple question
Hi, Tyberius Max,
Your entire argument is based on the Fallacy of Composition, just because things inside the universe behave in a certain way gives us no reason to suppose that the universe itself does.

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 Message 43 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-23-2007 11:16 AM TyberiusMax has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-23-2007 1:42 PM Dr Jack has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 73 of 389 (430264)
10-24-2007 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by TyberiusMax
10-23-2007 1:42 PM


Re: The bitter simple question
So jack, are you telling me that even though our universe tells us that something cannot come out of "pure nothing", maybe somehow, for some reason, the universe actually was at one time created out of nothing?
That's Mr Jack.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Arguing that because everything in the universe has a cause*, the universe itself must, is a logical fallacy. This doesn't mean the universe didn't have a cause, it means we can't know.
* - and, in any case, not everything in the universe has a cause, as was noted earlier.

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 Message 50 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-23-2007 1:42 PM TyberiusMax has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 74 of 389 (430265)
10-24-2007 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Chiroptera
10-23-2007 3:38 PM


Re: The bitter simple question
For the case of the universe, there is no "precedes". Since time began at the beginning of the universe, there was no time "before" this -- there was no "before". Nothing can precede the universe since the word "precede" has no meaning in this situation.
A small point, Chiroptera, but we don't actually know that. Current physics ability to describe the big bang breaks down (extremely!) momentarily after the singularity, so it can't track back from there; however, both String Theory and Quantum Loop Gravity can be traced back through t=0, and predict that time continue on the other side of the bang - that there was a before the big bang.

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 Message 65 by Chiroptera, posted 10-23-2007 3:38 PM Chiroptera has replied

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 Message 75 by Chiroptera, posted 10-24-2007 8:33 AM Dr Jack has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 76 of 389 (430278)
10-24-2007 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Chiroptera
10-24-2007 8:33 AM


Re: The bitter simple question
But that just pushes back the question. It might explain where our part of the universe, the part that we see, came from, but there is still the question of where the whole shebang came from.
As I understand it they predict that the before and after are mirror-images of each other; so time is infinite in both directions analagously to positive and negative numbers.

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 Message 75 by Chiroptera, posted 10-24-2007 8:33 AM Chiroptera has not replied

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 Message 77 by EighteenDelta, posted 10-24-2007 9:41 AM Dr Jack has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 79 of 389 (430290)
10-24-2007 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by EighteenDelta
10-24-2007 9:41 AM


Re: The bitter simple question
Pretty much year, the direction of increasing entropy is reversed.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 88 of 389 (430336)
10-24-2007 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by TyberiusMax
10-24-2007 4:56 PM


Re: Quantum Physics
Yup, you want to believe in a "god" that created the universe, that's fine. Nothing against it. No logical argument can be brought against such a being.
It has nothing, what-so-ever, to do with the kind of personal, intervensionist, god that Christianity (and others) claim exists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 4:56 PM TyberiusMax has not replied

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