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Author Topic:   The problems of big bang theory. What are they?
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 51 of 389 (430135)
10-23-2007 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by TyberiusMax
10-23-2007 1:42 PM


a suggested starting point
It might help you if you start here and then read all of the posts by cavediver and Son Gyku before posting much more on the origin of the universe.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-23-2007 1:42 PM TyberiusMax has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 87 of 389 (430335)
10-24-2007 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by TyberiusMax
10-24-2007 4:56 PM


Re: Quantum Physics
"I believe the universe is neither finite or infinite. The universe simply exists."
or
"I believe in a God outside of existence who created me."
I'm sorry but there is simply no connection or relationship between those two statements. You still seem to be making the absolutely stupid assertion that the two are somehow related or that believing one negates the other.
That is as absolutely stupid when applied to the existence of the Universe as it is when folk come in here and try to imply that accepting the fact of evolution and belief in God are somehow contradictory.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 4:56 PM TyberiusMax has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 6:27 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 90 of 389 (430342)
10-24-2007 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by TyberiusMax
10-24-2007 6:27 PM


More false dichotomies
Those are the only two possibilties
If you can think of another tell me.
Sorry, but that is simply nonsense.
They are unrelated. They could both be true, both be false, one true the other false, but only one has any possibility of being answered and that is the former.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 6:27 PM TyberiusMax has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 10:46 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 97 of 389 (430382)
10-24-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by TyberiusMax
10-24-2007 10:46 PM


Re: More false dichotomies
One says the universe just exists
Another believes in a God outside of existence
I believe the Universe just exists and that there is a God outside of what we know as existence.
The two are simply unrelated and as I pointed out several posts ago, both could be wrong, both could be right, one could be wrong and the other right, both could be partially wrong and partially right.
There are many other possibilities such as the universe came into existence due to some yet unknown natural event, or that the universe always existed.
Who are you to say that one can be proven, as they both have not been proven and require the same variable.
LOL. I am simply someone who is capable of looking at history and possibilities. GOD by definition is super-natural, therefore we will never be able to test GOD's existence.
You can not tell me which one has a better possibility of happening because neither one has a ratio of possiblity due to this variable.
Of course I can. We can simply look at history and we can see a continuing legacy of science coming up with models that explain what is seen.
Inserting "God did it" though tells us nothing. It is worthless from an information perspective and simply a dead end. It is a valueless and irrelevant assertion.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 10:46 PM TyberiusMax has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 11:18 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 100 of 389 (430385)
10-24-2007 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by TyberiusMax
10-24-2007 11:18 PM


Re: More false dichotomies
that it why I say there is no point in arguing the non-existence of a God.
I have not argued the non-existence of God, only the absolute irrelevance of God to the question of the origin of the universe.
However we can look at the history of science and see that it has been very effective in finding models that explain the universe as we see it.
There is the high probability of us finding the natural origins of the universe. Inserting "God did it" though is simply a dead end, contentless, a worthless assertion that tells us nothing.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 11:18 PM TyberiusMax has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 11:41 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 103 of 389 (430390)
10-24-2007 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by TyberiusMax
10-24-2007 11:41 PM


Re: More false dichotomies
So until then why care about arguing about the existence and non-existence of a God
You are doing the same thing they are, when you have not yet proven your hypothesis yet argue its validity.
LOL
Once again, I am NOT arguing the existence or non-existence of God. It is irrelevant, unimportant and unrelated to the origin of the universe.
What I have said is that inserting "God did it" is valueless, tells us nothing and is a dead end.
What will be of value is to continue exploring natural causes for the universe we see.
Why not find the high probability answer to why the universe "just exists" that proves once and for all there is no God
Again, that is a simply silly assertion. Finding the 'high probability answer to why the universe "just exists"' has NOTHING to do with whether or not God exists.
AbE:
What you seem to be asserting is a God of the Gaps. The problem is that historically, we tend to fill in the gaps and eventually, there will be no place left for your little goddlet.
There is another possibility. Look on what science teaches us as "How God did it." That way when we do understand the origins of the universe, and we will one day, you do not have to throw away the little God you created.
GOD is bigger and more wonderful than the little picayune goddlet you seem to have created and worship.
Edited by jar, : add God of the Gaps info.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-24-2007 11:41 PM TyberiusMax has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-25-2007 1:10 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 107 of 389 (430436)
10-25-2007 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by TyberiusMax
10-25-2007 1:10 AM


On throwing God Away
You just typed:
"Once again, I am NOT arguing the existence or non-existence of God. It is irrelevant, unimportant and unrelated to the origin of the universe."
How can you say you are not when right after that you go right back to saying:
"Again, that is a simply silly assertion. Finding the 'high probability answer to why the universe "just exists"' has NOTHING to do with whether or not God exists.
Because they are unrelated.
I would like you to know I am a Believer in God, a personal God believer, and a born again christian.
LOL. That has been obvious since the beginning, and that is fine. If you are happy with the little god you created, then great.
YOU CANNOT ARGUE AGAINST THIS, IT IS MY FAITH
you cannot say it is wrong because it has not been proven or disproven
I would not say that and have not said that. All I said is the little god of the gaps you worship is rapidly running out of places to exist. Just as we now know that the Garden of Eden story is just a fable, a folk tale, and that woman was not cloned from Adam, once we do know the origin of the universe, what is left of your god?
"There is another possibility. Look on what science teaches us as "How God did it." That way when we do understand the origins of the universe, and we will one day, you do not have to throw away the little God you created."
What does this mean? Do you believe there is a God?
What does it mean to find the natural "causes" for the universe but also believe there is a God. Why would their be a need for a God if there was a natural cause?
Do I believe there is a God? Yes. In fact, I am a very active Christian, and have been so for a long, long time. I believe that GOD created all that is, seen and unseen. I believe that Science is simply teaching us "How God Did It" and just as Science has taught us that God created man through the process of Evolution, we will one day understand how She created the Universe itself.
Notice you actually said "Why would their be a need for a God if there was a natural cause?"
I think that goes to the heart of your problem.
You have created God because You have needs. The God you worship is the one YOU created to fill YOUR needs, nothing more than that. You have created a false idol, some bling-bling pimp daddy procurer of a God.
There is no need for God, except in the Human Mind.
If GOD exists, She exists regardless of the belief or non-belief of man.
If GOD does not exist, She does not exist regardless of the belief or non-belief of man.
God is NOT dependent on your needs, your beliefs, your imagination.
All of your posts here support what I have said. You seem to understand that science really is disproving your god, that very soon there really won't be either a place or a need for your god and your god will just get tossed on the trash heap where it belongs.
But that is only the little god you created, and seeing it tossed in the trash will be no loss whatsoever.
Can I suggest you begin your search for GOD with the Catechism of Creation.
Edited by jar, : change sub-title

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-25-2007 1:10 AM TyberiusMax has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-25-2007 3:25 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 113 of 389 (430457)
10-25-2007 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by TyberiusMax
10-25-2007 3:25 PM


Re: On throwing God Away
LOL Too funny.
How could you disprove my God when I believe he is infinte, you can't because my belief is infinite
Too funny.
How many times must I repeat that I have no need to disprove your god, that will happen soon enough anyway.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-25-2007 3:25 PM TyberiusMax has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 139 of 389 (430931)
10-28-2007 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Sylas
10-28-2007 11:40 AM


Hi Sylas
We have missed you sir.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Sylas, posted 10-28-2007 11:40 AM Sylas has not replied

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