Jesus Was Not A Sacrifice To Forgive Sins

When I was born my Dad was off fighting a war. There was Mom, my Grandmother (Nixie), and a maid that came in and helped once in a while. The male father figure in my life was Tata (long a’s because I had trouble saying Taylor), an older gentleman that helped around the house and that taught me much of what I now know is important. Like many little kids, my horse (Blackie) and I often got in trouble. It was usually Blackie that caused the problem; he tended to be careless and often knocked things down when wheeling around as horses sometimes do. Once he was galloping around the yard and ran through the garden (at that time most everyone had a garden. They called them Victory Gardens for some reason) and trampled the plants that Tata had just spent hours placing lovingly in the ground. A whole day’s work was destroyed in only seconds.Yet Tata, Mom and Nixie all forgave him. They did tell me to try to keep Blackie under control, and that sometimes, horses need to be reined in.Now I didn’t think much about it at the time, I was only a child even if I was the man of the house, but Tata suffered for Blackie’s sins (and I guess my sins as well because I really should have reined him in). They had never promised to forgive me. And Mom had never promised to have Tata suffer for my sins, but never the less, he did.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

There is no need for there to be a promise or even reference in the Bible to Jesus suffering for us, dying for our sins. Just as my parents, God found a way to forgive us our sins.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Sometimes, in order to make a point, it is necessary to make it standout, make it bold, make it memorable.Christ's death and resurrection has certainly been all of those.But I certainly understand what you mean. Many a time when GOD's worked to get my attention I've felt it might have been easier for him to just send a telegram instead of an earthquake. But unfortunately, most of us are pretty hardheaded. We listen to the louder voice and often miss the quiet loving whisper GOD usually uses. In this case I guess GOD felt the message should be writ large and bold.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Sometimes, in order to make a point, it is necessary to make it standout, make it bold, make it memorable.Christ's death and resurrection has certainly been all of those.But I certainly understand what you mean. Many a time when GOD's worked to get my attention I've felt it might have been easier for him to just send a telegram instead of an earthquake. But unfortunately, most of us are pretty hardheaded. We listen to the louder voice and often miss the quiet loving whisper GOD usually uses. In this case I guess GOD felt the message should be writ large and bold.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Please remember that Christ's death is only part of the message. The sacrifice is only part, the message includes Christs life, his death and ressurection.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Only a few.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I pretty much disagree with Buz. I do not believe that sacrifice was required or that the penalty of sin was death and so Jesus had to die and all that stuff.If you look at the examples of sacrifice in the Bible, most are more of the nature of offerings, thankgivings, sharings. There are notable exceptions that show up, particularly in Leviticus, that are sacrifices for atonement. But that is also where we find some of the harshest punishments and most of the rules for the Priestly Class.But you presented evidence that seemed to show that a sacrifice was not required. That is, in my opinion, true. But no one required GOD to make such a sacrifice. Instead, Jesus life, death and reserection was an offering, freely give, by GOD of GOD. Not only is it propitiation for our sins, it is a clear statement against traditional sacrifice and an example of what sacrifice should be in the future.God sacrificed himself to save us. This is the same act you see in the soldier that throws himself on a grenade to save his companions, the mother that drowns holding her childs head above water, the policeman that gives his life protecting his community. It was a statement that said, "Love GOD, Love your neighbors as yourself".It said, bringing some dumb animal and burning it does nothing. It said, you cannot steal 100 talents and think that if you give the priests ten you will be forgiven.It said, really live by the two Great Commandments. It said, "I loved you so much that I died for you, and for the whole world, those who believe in me and even those who do not".

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

He does when he talks to me. About all I ever hear is, "Well, looks like you screwed up again, Bubba."

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Sacrifice, meaning the older traditional religous sacrifice, killing something, burning something, or contributing something, hasn't been needed since Jesus died. Sacrifice, as I mentioned, where someone love others as himself, will hopefully always be with us. Actually, in the Christian church, Jesus was the full and complete propitiation and oblation for our sins.Sacrifice does continue though. Here is a section from the The Great Thanksgiving Rite One. But then it goes on to say: In otherwords, we agree to try to live our lives as laid out in the two Great Commandments. Notice it says "Living sacrifice".We agree to try. We know that we are unlikely to succeed, but we will, and hopefully do, try.But before we even get to that point, we must first acknowledge, and repent whatever sins we may have done. And have those sins forgiven. Notice that although the Bishop or Priest says the forgivness, it is done by GOD directly.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Most likely. Without a doubt. Yup, see Message 34

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If you are talking about the traditional religious sacrifice, I would agree.In fact, I would say that the story of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus simply highlighted, and affirmed that point of view.But that does not negate the second form of sacrifice that I mentioned.If you go back to the early editions of the BCP, you find that the charge and commitment has remained pretty constant.From the 1662 BCP and from the 1979 BCP

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Simple question.Is Jesus GOD or is he a separate individual?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So you are a polytheist?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Are you saying that Jesus is NOT God?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Actually buz, as usual you are simply evading the question, so once again, is Jesus God?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion