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Author Topic:   Proof for God's Non-existance?
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 286 of 317 (422325)
09-16-2007 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by ringo
09-16-2007 8:49 PM


Re: Seeing is believing saith the skeptic
You have got to be kidding. My fridge is chock-full of atoms.

Observations don't have to be direct, you know.

Heh...

Then my fridge is chock-full of God. Observations don't have to be direct. you know.

Hey Ringo, it is better to shun the bait than struggle in the snare.


"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 8:49 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by jar, posted 09-16-2007 8:57 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 289 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 9:00 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 287 of 317 (422326)
09-16-2007 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by ringo
09-16-2007 8:49 PM


Ringo writes:

You have got to be kidding. My fridge is chock-full of atoms.

Too right. He walked into that one. In fact, he said "atoms" plural, which you can see, otherwise all would be darkness in the universe!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 8:49 PM ringo has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 288 of 317 (422328)
09-16-2007 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Hyroglyphx
09-16-2007 8:54 PM


Re: Seeing is believing saith the skeptic
Then my fridge is chock-full of God. Observations don't have to be direct. you know.

But anyone can confirm that his fridge is full of atoms.

That is not true of your assertion.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-16-2007 8:54 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-16-2007 9:01 PM jar has not yet responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16333
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 289 of 317 (422329)
09-16-2007 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Hyroglyphx
09-16-2007 8:54 PM


Re: Seeing is believing saith the skeptic
nemesis_juggernaut writes:

Then my fridge is chock-full of God. Observations don't have to be direct. you know.

Pay attention. Observations have to be objective - i.e. a Mormon has to see the same God in your fridge that you see.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-16-2007 8:54 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

pbee
Member (Idle past 4133 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 290 of 317 (422330)
09-16-2007 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by ringo
09-16-2007 8:53 PM


quote:
Your source is unverified.
Well at this junction we have two options 1) Ringo said it was unverified or 2) it was verified by an outstanding number or people and accounts following the event.

I'm not going to discriminate your feelings towards the claim in question, however you may want to provide us with a better source or reference. Otherwise your counterclaim cannot be regarded as anything but an opinion.

quote:
The criterion is objective observers. Once again, if somebody fails to agree with the observation, you need to explain why.
If a tree falls in the forest.... Got anything else?

I once read "We exist, therefore He lives" it was not a very profound statement at the time, however, today I think it says a great deal about humans and God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 8:53 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 291 of 317 (422331)
09-16-2007 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by jar
09-16-2007 8:57 PM


Re: Seeing is believing saith the skeptic
But anyone can confirm that his fridge is full of atoms.

That is not true of your assertion.

Well, then, he can also confirm the non-existence of God too, seeing as that is the premise of the topic.


"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias
This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by jar, posted 09-16-2007 8:57 PM jar has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16333
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 292 of 317 (422337)
09-16-2007 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by pbee
09-16-2007 9:00 PM


pbee writes:

1) Ringo said it was unverified or 2) it was verified by an outstanding number or people and accounts following the event.

You'll have to roll out that "outstanding number or people and accounts" and have them all independently verified and agree with each other before your assertion has any value.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 9:00 PM pbee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 9:28 PM ringo has responded

pbee
Member (Idle past 4133 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 293 of 317 (422344)
09-16-2007 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by ringo
09-16-2007 9:16 PM


quote:
You'll have to roll out that "outstanding number or people and accounts" and have them all independently verified and agree with each other before your assertion has any value.
Nope. This would be your own desire, however we both know that claims and records are not treated this way. Based on your needs, a great deal of our history would be discarded instead of being valued. Perhaps you have something more realistic to add to the pot?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 9:16 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 9:50 PM pbee has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 16333
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 294 of 317 (422354)
09-16-2007 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by pbee
09-16-2007 9:28 PM


pbee writes:

Based on your needs, a great deal of our history would be discarded instead of being valued.

Not at all. All of our history has been evaluated and verified as I have described. I'm only asking that your claims be subjected to the same tests as any other claims.

Since you make no attempt to back up your claims, I assume you can't.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 9:28 PM pbee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 10:05 PM ringo has responded

pbee
Member (Idle past 4133 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 295 of 317 (422363)
09-16-2007 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by ringo
09-16-2007 9:50 PM


quote:
Since you make no attempt to back up your claims, I assume you can't.
This is the first and last time I will respond to childish taunts by you under such terms. Such behavior is not worthy of a response or the information. So now... lets move on with a supporting reference.

Have you ever heard of Flavius Josephus, He was a first-century Jewish historian and a Pharisee. He referred to Jesus Christ in his book Jewish Antiquities. Although people doubt the authenticity of his references, Josephus mentions *Jesus the Messiah. Though many criticized that statement few doubted the genuineness of his second reference where he said Ananus(the high priest) gathered the judges of the Sanhedrin and apprehended a man called *James, *brother of Jesus, who was called the Christ. So here we have, a Pharisee, member of the sect that was claimed as an opponents of Jesus, acknowledging the existence of James, the brother of Jesus.

So there it is, *one external source that supports the existence of Christ, who in turn made the statement that God is a spirit as I mentioned earlier.

Edited by pbee, : No reason given.

Edited by pbee, : typo's


This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 9:50 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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pbee
Member (Idle past 4133 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 296 of 317 (422364)
09-16-2007 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by jar
09-16-2007 8:57 PM


Re: Seeing is believing saith the skeptic
quote:
But anyone can confirm that his fridge is full of atoms.

That is not true of your assertion.


Prior to and following the validation of atoms, could we confirm any atoms were in the fridge? Has the condition changed after the fact? Your statement brings nothing in adding or removing evidence to the claim.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by jar, posted 09-16-2007 8:57 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by jar, posted 09-16-2007 10:23 PM pbee has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 16333
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 297 of 317 (422365)
09-16-2007 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by pbee
09-16-2007 10:05 PM


pbee writes:

So here we have *one external source which supports the existence of Christ who in turn made the statement that God is a spirit as I mentioned earlier.

And Ian Fleming wrote that James Bond acknowledged the existence of Goldfinger.

To sum up: there is a lack of evidence for God's existence. Inductively, that suggests non-existence. And the best counter you have is that some guy said some guy believed in God.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 10:05 PM pbee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 10:19 PM ringo has not yet responded

pbee
Member (Idle past 4133 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 298 of 317 (422369)
09-16-2007 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by ringo
09-16-2007 10:15 PM


Oh now, your just trying to cheer me up.

If Jesus existed then his statement and the notion that God exists just received an injection. But this isn't the point were trying to make is it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 10:15 PM ringo has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30935
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 299 of 317 (422370)
09-16-2007 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by pbee
09-16-2007 10:14 PM


Re: Seeing is believing saith the skeptic
Prior to and following the validation of atoms, could we confirm any atoms were in the fridge?

No, but knowledge has evolved. For example, when we were more ignorant it was reasonable to think that the Bible was an accurate history. Now we know that much of what is reported in the various Bible stories are simply factually wrong.

As we learn more knowledge evolves.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 10:14 PM pbee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 10:26 PM jar has responded

pbee
Member (Idle past 4133 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 300 of 317 (422373)
09-16-2007 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by jar
09-16-2007 10:23 PM


Re: Seeing is believing saith the skeptic
quote:
Now we know that much of what is reported in the various Bible stories are simply factually wrong.
Such as...?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by jar, posted 09-16-2007 10:23 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by iceage, posted 09-16-2007 10:31 PM pbee has responded
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