What is God’s Heaven or plan at the end? Would you like it?

From an evolutionary view point, is anything in existence that has not been fully adapted or evolved excluded from the confines of the term perfect?If given to creation and one characteristic of YHWH “the Perfect” is represented in a Spirit of free will (doing as he pleases ), supposing mankind was created in his image, mankind’s Spirit of free will to explore and then experiment with lusts/curiosities, etc. such as greed/discontentment which in turn led to hatred/malevolence and the likes for it’s own benefit would simply imply the creation (mankind) “screwed it up“. Yet, only if mankind is fully evolved could one conclude that YHWH is indeed imperfect.Supposing YHWH also retains the knowledge and choice to explore and experiment with lusts/greed/malevolence and the likes yet never chooses them selfishly (but only for the benefit of mankind) indicates and affirms a difference or separation between the image or likeness of YHWH and mankind. This may bolster the notion of the evolution of mankind outside of the image (presence) of YHWH.If the complete evolution of man has yet to occur, it could be said that neither YHWH or the creation “screwed up”. Restoration & destruction , in this frame of thought would hinge upon mankind’s will. Each individual creation’s will would result in perfect creation or perfect destruction, both to the benefit of mankind as a whole first and the rest of the universe , including YHWH, as a by product of this evolutionary process. Granted this is based on the speculation that mankind is not fully evolved or perfected.If freedom (free will) is inclusive to perfection, then no mistake may have been made as of yet on the part of YHWH, but only possibly on the part of that which has been created(mankind). If so, all things may be an evolution towards something perfectly created or perfectly destroyed, affirming YHWH “the Perfect”.

Evolution does not have a finish line. It is infinite.
God is flawless and continuously living in His Perfect universe. Past, present and future. He never loses Perfection.
Here we’ll depart for a moment . Is free will not a part of God’s Perfection?Can that what God creates perfectly lose its perfection by its own free will?Did not a portion of his angels lose their perfection sometime into their existence and we, the people, lose ours, almost immediately, before even having a chance to procreate? Seeming that, somehow, imperfection can be ingrained into the conscience or DNA.Is this (imperfection) the cause for our Spirit, as well as a portion of angels, to not be able to sustain life in the Presence of God . to be expelled from his presence once imperfection is chosen or established?Is existence outside of the presence and unquestionable Knowledge of the God evidence of our imperfection?Does sin and decay exist at the right hand of the Perfect God?Do we, as a multitude, exist in his universe or in his Presence; that is, an undoubtable certainty of his existence and desire to co-exist with us?God’s perfect plan may be to evolve and establish a perfect understanding of what imperfection (sin) is and allow (freewill) each of his own accord to choose: perfection or imperfection; each to its own consequence.Does devolution have a finish line? Is it finite?Is evolution Perfect and of God, and devolution imperfect and of the devil?Has man not devolved, spiritually, from the Presence and Knowledge of God since being deceived, in the very beginnings, by the imperfect (that which chose imperfection by its own freewill)?Could, by understanding imperfection and its consequence, cause some to choose Perfection; in turn, continuing the evolution of being united within the Love and Understanding and Presence of The Almighty God? If this were God’s plan at the end, I might dig it.Obviously, I don’t actually know . but it’s something to think about, at least, for the sake of contrast.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Isn’t the perishable and mortal imperfect.
It’s not that I believe the knowledge of evil is something
that does not fit with Perfection. But rather the choosing
of evil over good when faced with a choice. Eve was faced with a
choice: doubt God or believe Him. She chose to doubt him, and this
immediately and permanently altered her conscience, along with that
of all her offspring. Her perfect state of existence was altered.
Humans don’t seem to have been originally designed to know evil, or
we would have been instilled with this knowledge at our conception.
Adam and Eve were not . they acquired it after their conception.
Because they weren’t instilled with this knowledge they didn’t know
better why not to choose it. They didn’t yet understand the
consequence (living in imperfection apart from God). Through Christ,
we are evolved into the “first fruits of a new creation”,
separate from the original human race. This "perfect" creation seems to be
designed to know good and evil. Through our conscious experience of
the consequences of evil, we will never choose them,
once united with the presence of God. We will have been instilled
with the knowledge of good and evil before our conception, which
takes place at our transformation . that is, our resurrection. I know of being commanded to be fruitful and multiply (1st), and I
see where we are commanded to subdue the Earth(2nd) .
but where is/are the scriptures commanding us to learn of good and evil? The first I perceive is doubt, the second being shame(cause) . my
perception is derived from the separation between us and the direct
Presence of the Spirit of God(effect). In my mind and Spirit this
perception is bolstered by the “need” of forgiveness in order for
this stronghold to be pulled down. That which is perfect, need not
be forgiven. That which needs “forgiveness” seems imperfect.
Salvation (salvage) is a means to perfection. You can’t salvage
something that is perfect . can you? God does have a plan to evolve
our unperfected state to that of perfection. His plan is perfect,
although we are not yet. I can’t shake it .

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Sorry about that . I over explain everything.
Makes my wife feel like a three year old sometimes (and me like a five year old ).
I’ll work on it for everyone’s sake.Expressing the view, we weren’t designed to know evil,
but rather only good upon creation.
That something perfect can create something perfect or imperfect.
Trying to propose I don’t believe our imperfection mars
or negates God’s in any way.
That people, although God’s creation, aren’t perfect, rather on their way
to an evolution towards perfection through God’s
purpose and plan (that good and evil are both included in )for a separate creation...
if they choose to believe.
This new creation being conceived with the knowledge of good and evil,
as opposed to mankind making the acquisition after conception.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Not surprised, but rather sorrowful and grieved... Genesis 6:6.
Like some of the emotions a loving parent may feel if their child dies
or chooses a life of sin and is imprisoned,
causing separation from one another.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Are our Spirits born to die? I believe there are some that won’t.
Our nature is physically flesh and blood and spiritually sin.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God,
and though maybe a bit presumptuously,
I’m assuming sin can’t either.Wait . do you believe in Spirits (that we each have one)? Eve chose to not trust God and get herself killed. . God chose to design a plan and
allow us to profit from the Knowledge. I couldn’t agree with you more.
I didn’t imply He didn’t want it on Earth .
God, rather, did not want evil in the Heart and Spirit of Man.
I think He may have been overjoyed if we co-existed
on the same planet with it without becoming poisoned by it.
This is why he was sorrowful and grieved
upon our acquisition of and inclination toward evil. He Knew we couldn’t handle the Knowledge successfully.Still, God chose to design a plan and
allow us to profit from the Knowledge. Sonsa bych, . good point!
I knew I liked you for a reason.
Seriously...thank you. I object. You sure this didn’t mean to mow the lawn? When? All we have to do is sin and trust God and we’ll go to Heaven.
That’s a little murky .
Granted, Mercy does triumph over judgment, and we are saved by Grace.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

You know wuts up.
God's knows what He's doin' in Heaven.
His plan is smooooth,
an I'm gonna love it.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

If we could meet his expectation, Jesus died in vain. Yessir. Not so much. I’m of the camp of literal subdue. Take care of the planet . that sort of thing. As far as fruitfully multiplying . yessir.
Hence, that "experiment" continues.
As far as the Earth, we have all but ruined it (which we still have a chance at). I think that's exactly why He’s put in in the works to have it finished off. He didn’t fail.
In his grace, He’ll wait to destroy the planet til all His loved ones are off it.
Actually, He even speaks of a New Heaven and a new Earth to replace this ol’ heap we didn’t subdue well enough. Yessir. God is not a respecter of persons, but apparently he is a respecter of a person’s decisions.
He is a God of freewill, and our decision to refuse His Grace does not negate his Perfection.
If you wanna be thrown into the bottomless pit . the burning lake of fire...exist apart from God, whatever, God will, most likely, respect that.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

As jar would say ,"And your support for that is found where?"

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

“Make sense” and “strange” are both relative to one”s understanding and beliefs.
Incest is defined as sexual intercourse between persons so closely related that they are forbidden by law to marry.
Consider this definition while noting the Holy Spirit and Mary are not even physically related, considering the Holy Spirit is a spirit.In Jesus’ conception there is no mention of physical penetration as in the stories of the Grigori giving rise to the race of hybrids known as the Nephilim that I assume your referring to.In the Gospel of Luke the Angel explains to Mary, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be the Son of God.”
The actual Greek translates very closely; something like,
“[The] Spirit holy will come upon thee, and [the] power of [the] Most High will overshadow thee; wherefore, also the thing being born holy will be called[,] Son of God.”Notice the Angel does not say, ““The Holy Spirit will cum upon you, ”.You express God frowned on angel / human procreation, and I agree; yet, there’s no insinuation of any physical breeding in the scripture here, much less incest. (eeew)This is a depiction of a “divine” virgin birth.
If you are to believe Elohim is divine then His decision, choice, and performance of a divine act will “make sense” perfectly. The idea of a Divine God performing divine acts surpassing the realities of our physical realm seems strange to some?It would also seem strange to some, if Elohim, being Divine, could not perform divine acts surpassing the realities of our physical realm. Yessir. Baseless comment. Or as “jar the wise” would say,
"And your support for that is found where?"

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Again, consider the definition of subdue from Merriam-Webster Definition 1 and 3 work very well in context to Genesis 1:28 considering Elohim’s decree of land cultivation in Genesis 3:23 and 2:15. Elohim seems to be telling us to respect the land we were given and utilize it to our benefit. Bring it in to our subjection. We may need a knowledge of good and evil to subdue people or the thoughts of our mind; but we don’t need a knowledge of good and evil to push dirt or go fishing. It seems God “locked up” the Tree of Life after because man chose the Way of the Serpent, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, over the Way of God, the Tree of Life. . Notice Elohim advised against one, but not the other. Elohim supported the consumption of fruit from only one of the two trees (the Tree of Life). Adam and Eve had the option to eat from the Tree of Life since the beginning and the consequence would have been at least immortality; this would also cause man to “become like one of Us(Gods)“. We would become "more Godlike" because we attained immortality.
If Adam and Eve chose to eat from the Tree of Life the Scriptures may have read something like, In context, from the Scriptures, Elohim’s stance on freewill seems to have offered both as options and only one as a choice. Each one would lead to a different set of consequences and historical recordings. It seems the (tree of) Knowledge of Good and Evil has created many questions. So as, the (tree of ) Life creates many answers. What is the basis for reaching a point of “grace” as opposed to similarity?
We were created in the “image of God“; we always were “Godlike”. “Become like one of Us” implies a heightened similarity, in the sense that Elohim too is “to know good and evil”.
The new Hyundai Sonata is “more Jaguarlike”. The Sonata is similar, but it does not contain all the aspects of a Jaguar XJ6. Does a Hyundai somehow deserve the class of a Jaguar because now its “more Jaguarlike”?
Elohim never denied us immortality.
To the contrary; He supported it from the context of the story. We had a choice; take “of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live forever" or “ from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Apparently Elohim gives advice and denies us nothing. Cause and effect. Elohim didn’t “bother sending him out to eventually die”, Adam chose this. Elohim simply honored Adam’s choice and freewill. He supported the choice to partake in “the tree of life, and eat,” and “live forever”, right?
Elohim will not force anyone to listen and follow His Word apparently. Don’t see how. I know you believe in the gift of the Prophets and I see you have browsed Revelation. There are many pertinent prophecies on the topic of God “ending it”, as you say, scattered through out the Scriptures; although Elohim will not break His Word to himself in Genesis 8:21, “I will never again destroy every living thing”. This could be due in part to our diligence in following His command to “be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth” (Gen 1:28)
Elohim will destroy the earth (Rev 6:11,12, 8:7-11, 16: 8,9,18) Possibly due in part to our neglect of subduing it. In His Grace, Elohim will establish a new Earth (Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13; Rev. 21:1). Since Elohim does intend on changing this experiment, as Scripture provides us with, the evidence must be contrary. Elohim must not want the “talking snake”’ plan after all. Adam’s decision to listen to Elohim's Word (God's advice)instead of listening to Eve’s word ("talking snake" advice) simply would have lead to a different set of consequences and historical recordings.
Consider, “Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is . .”. History occurred from the listening to of a voice other than Elohim’s. Doesn't seem like Adam listening to the voice of Elohim would have circumvented the existence of history from occuring.These are our thoughts in light of the Scriptures. Who am I to judge a thought the Spirit of God has allowed within you . your opinions are a pleasant contrast to me. I apologize if I offended you. Keep up the good work!!

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Consider; We often think of the Old Testament as Law and the New Testament as Grace, but this is not necessarily true. If we read the New Testament with an Old Covenant heart it will just be law to us. We’ll still have dead religion with “righteousness” that is based on compliance with written commandments instead of a living relationship with Elohim.Apparently all truth is in Jesus who the Spirit was sent to “testify”...Who knew? Ephesians 4:21-
The Bible is a great lil’ gift from Elohim to his people.
Even so, the Scriptures are not meant to take the place of God Himself or the Spirit who was sent.
They are a means, not an end.
Knowing the book of Elohim is not our primary goal, but rather to know Elohim, of who the book speaks.
As dandy as the written Word is, it is not God.
If it supplants the place of Elohim in our hearts and minds it has only become an idol.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Yessir.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Not at all. I think Elohim had it documented that He warned Adam so, whence in retrospect, we would all get to witness the folly of not trusting Him . We’ve been over this Mr. Refuter. We agree . almost. Agreed. It’s not about what God would appreciate more. Elohim has Love for miles. He does not appreciate you more because I’m mildly retarded. I belief the flood story not because of a Sunday school brainwashing about rotten people (in his Grace, God spared me from that), but for my own mildly retarded reasons. Elohim seems to have ended the reign of the race of hybrids, the Nephilim you mentioned earlier, effectively with this flood. You know . the heros of old and men of renown. Most likely where the “mythology” of Zeus and his cohorts originated. Unless you can point me to a present day tribe of giant half angels, I’ll assume it worked. Neither of us do . thank God. We’ll never know and it’s null. We are where we are and it’s all gravy. You skipped a couple things. I’m sure you’re working on ”em though. I agree with you. Jesus did not come “abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill them”. Anyone who breaks ”em and leads others on that path will go to the back of the bus in the Kingdom, and whoever practices and teaches them, accurately, will be called “great”. I didn’t mean for anyone to disregard the Law, but the contrary.
Paul, as an Advocate for the Way, declares all the commandments are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor as yourself. Simple...concise. Not necessarily easy to do; a living relationship with Elohim will begin to absorb the Law naturally; a strong living relationship with the Father will circumvent the need for the written Law. Kinda like playing music by ear . once you know the chords, you don’t need the notes.
He who loves his fellowman, unconditionally as we are loved by the Father, has fulfilled the Law.I think we agree on this . almost. As you said, Elohim doesn’t break his Law. Apparently two humans can only conceive a human; not “wholly” human and Holy God. Goes along the lines of Elohim not withstanding the Nephilim. This is how He could step in without interspecies intercourse.
Seems the only way to circumvent His law was to divinely establish the “first fruit” of a “new creation” through a virgin. That's what He does...Elohim creates things...I think He does it for a living.
The “first fruit” of His “new creation”, Jesus of Nazareth, is “wholly” human and Holy God. Elohim is not “logical“, He is Divine. You’ll have to take that up with Him. Considering His omnipotence, He may have done both. Jesus was a child prophet. He had the the Pharisees spinnin’ when he was like 12 yrs. old.
Pretty impressive, even if it doesn’t match your standards of impressiveness.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Consider; now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now you know in part; then you shall know fully. Utopian thinkers, or any of us for that matter, don’t quite have the ability to comprehend an extraordinary scenario causing wonder or astonishment because the mystery of Godliness, mentioned in 1st Timothy 3:16, is incomprehensible through our glasses of the knowledge of good and evil we perceive things through.
Ponder the concept of the infinite. Ponder the concept of bliss. You may have experienced one, although the other has yet to be realized. I’m sure any of us could whip up a scenario but I doubt it would be an accurate portrayal of what’s in store for us. It may not be that hard for someone to contemplate the concept of eternal bliss. Simply remember any moment of euphoria you have experienced and apply an infinite expanse to that moment. It’s probably as close as you’ll get until you experience infinity.
We’re shaking a Christ-mas present to guess what we’ve got coming; unless you have x-ray glasses or open it, it’s only a guess. We can’t open it until Christ-mas morning and my x-ray glasses don’t really work. I’d rather just wait and be surprised.Consider Paul’s words . there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.Yet, a few illustrations are touched on in the Book. How's this for an imagination?
The Prophet Isaiah suggests if you believe in Elohim it only makes sense to believe He will create new Heavens and a new Earth. We’re told by John, in Revelations, that he saw a new Heaven and a new Earth after the first Heaven and Earth had reached their expiration dates. John witnessed the new Jerusalem “coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband”.Then he heard somebody (I wonder who ) on a throne establishing an era of time where God dwells with men: that is, He lives with them undeniably. They’re His people, and He Himself is with them and is their God. He wipes all the tears from their eyes. There’s no more death, mourning, crying or pain because the old order of things had passed away. Elohim apparently makes everything new. “Write it down“ it’s stated, in a sonorous voice, because the words are trustworthy and true. The Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End declares “It is done“, making His Word His bond.The best perceivable chart we have to acknowledge the plans of God was written by many men over many years in devotion to the same author; the Author of Life. To suppose everyone will go to the heavens or everyone will be on the Earth in the future seems to contradict Scripture when you look at the Bible as one book instead of sixty six independent short stories. The species established through Jesus seems a non-corporeal type of spiritual being that revels in the heavens, as “flesh and blood does not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.” Unless born into the spirit of Jesus, the species established through Adam, humans, remain people of organic composition. Seems corporeal people will always remain on the earths, eventually enjoying the new era established by Elohim.There were two trees in the Garden of Eden. Each of these trees represents a creation that God has given life. Elohim unconditionally loves both of these species with all of His being. It’s said the first will come last and the last will come first. If the Tree of Knowledge of good and Evil came first through Adam, offering knowledge and mortal death, the Tree of Life will come last through Jesus bringing forth the mystery of Godliness and eternal life into fulfillment. Those descended through Jesus will populate the heavens while mortal descendants of Adam subdue the Earth. Since death came through Adam, a human being, the resurrection of the dead also come through a human being, Jesus. Through Adam’s decision and choice all die and by Jesus decision and choice all will be made alive. This represents God’s evolution of mankind. These creations that Elohim is unconditionally devoted to will live in the universe peacefully; in the new heavens and on the new earth. Like the wolf and the lamb of these times, they seem to be at peace with each other.Isaiah seems to be referring to Elohim’s people comprised of flesh and blood who have repopulated the new Earth in the 65th part of his book; “ Never again will there be in it (earth) infants who live but a few days, or older people who do not live out their years; those who die at a hundred will be thought mere youths; those who fail to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.” The people Isaiah’s speaking about here do physically die, hinting that they’re descendants of Adam, as opposed to Jesus, because they are mortal.Isaiah also mentions a new Jerusalem; that is Mount Zion. Apparently, the former Earth will not be remembered or even come to mind. We’re told to “be glad and rejoice” in what Elohim will design here in part because a joy incomprehensible through our glasses of the knowledge of good and evil will be realized.No more whining & crying, dead babies or sickly old people. This repopulation of mankind will build houses and live in them as well as plant vineyards and eat their fruit and nobodies property will be foreclosed on. Whatever work they do won’t be marked by futility, but continuously enjoyable (outta be interesting). They won’t have to worry about their kid’s, or their kid’s kid’s, getting arrested or hooked on meth with the scarcity of corruption. These children of Elohim will be “one with their creator” and He will give them the desire of their hearts desire quicker than they can ask. The terms “Jews” and “gentiles” shouldn’t exist because all people alive during this era will be the chosen people God. We’re told of the wolves and lambs feeding together and lions eating hay . possibly reflecting Adam’s creation and Jesus’ creation in harmony with Elohim and the Spirit of Christ at peace.Jesus was asked once when the Kingdom of Elohim would subdue the Earth. He replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."I’d say no to the corporeal for those born into the spirit of Christ; at least not in the sense it is presently defined. Apparently flesh and blood doesn’t come into possession of the Heavens. According to scripture The Heavens in the Kingdom Of Elohim don’t facilitate that of an organic, perishable, mortal composition. (1 Corinthians 15:50)Jesus has been designated to be endowed as the “first fruits” of a new “creation” in the Kingdom of the Elohim. (1 Corinthians 15:23,50-54)All who subscribe to the Way that the Apostle Paul advocates, like Jesus of Nazareth, will also be changed and meet Him, the Father, along with a multitude of others who chose the Way. When it happens, the saying “death as been swallowed up in victory” will be realized. (Luke 23:42-43, 1 Corinthians 15:23)It’s said, to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord so it’s likely they’ll meet Him in the Kingdom as a “new” conscience spiritual being. They seem to have evolved, by the glory and power and mystery of Elohim into a creation where their conscience embodies a spiritual existence, possibly modeled after Jesus’ resurrected form. Anyone that belongs to the Way will become the “first fruits” of a “new creation” in addition to Jesus. Apparently Elohim is at it again, doing what He does best . creating life forms. Angels, beasts of the earth, humans and now Jesus Freaks . what next? (1 Corinthians 15:20-23, 52-53)These “first fruits of a new creation” descended through Jesus may have the ability to take a tangible form on the Earth, but I’ve found limited evidence to support it. Jesus conscience spiritual form outside of the parameters of His former human precedent existing visibly and tangibly to people does seem to correlate it.This potential evidence is presented by the declaration of over five hundred people who witness the existence of Jesus’ conscience in a human-like form, yet, defying the laws of physics as we understand them after his Resurrection occurs. Appearing and disappearing; sometimes seemingly unrecognizable at first. Although His physical body was mutilated and made lifeless, He comes back into existence. People can see Him and interact with Him; Jesus has the ability to be perceived as tangible in the physical world at this point.Although, all of these substantiations takes place before the “Ascension“, leading to speculation whether Jesus was changed to His permanent new form of embodiment, that we will share with Him, or whether He was in transit. Jesus asks not to be touched just yet because He hasn’t gone to the Father. The reasoning is vague beyond this. These eye witness corroborations are scattered throughout the end of each of the first four Gospels.If you believe in Jesus & company like Peter and the ones chosen to spread the news, you should be looking forward to a new Heavens and a new Earth in keeping with Elohim’s promise . the home of the mystery of GodlinessEdited by Bailey, : punct.

---

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary