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Author Topic:   What is God’s Heaven or plan at the end? Would you like it?
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 242 (417097)
08-19-2007 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Greatest I am
08-18-2007 9:01 AM


Re: Eve commited suicide.
If you read the Bible literally then Eve would not have been the first to defy God. The angels in Heaven would have been first.
Since it's so "literal," I'm sure you would not mind pointing it out to me? Chapter? Verse?
Genesis 6:6 writes:
The LORD was grieved that He had made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain.
God may have grieved but in a way that we would grieve for someone going to the hospital to have a tumor removed. Without the trip there is death. With this grievous trip there is life. A father will grieve for a son that falls from his first bicycle but will nevertheless help him back on the seat knowing that he might fall again. The reward is what is important. If you read Genesis again where God is speaking to Eve as she is leaving the garden with a Jesus like compassion you will see that the same exact words take on a completely new meaning. The chastisement becomes merely a statement of fact to our real nature. Our real nature has nothing to do with lounging in the garden of ignorance and not knowing much of anything.
Nah... I think it's more of the grieving you have when you build a crooked bookshelf, and all the books slide out the back end of it.
His first instructions were to go out and multiply and learn of good and evil.
Please, point this one out to me. I'm looking over Genesis 1:28”
quote:
Gen 1:28 -- And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Yes, he tells them to go out and multiply; but he never commands them to learn of good and evil. In fact, he forbids it when he tells them not to eat of the tree of "the knowledge of good and evil."
quote:
Gen 2:17 -- But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, though shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Later on, God demonstrates his frustration at the man and woman knowing of good and evil, further evidence that he would never have encouraged them to learn it:
quote:
Gen 3:22 -- Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"” (23) therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.
Unless you have some verses to show otherwise, I'd say you're severely off course.
Jon
Edited by Jon, : Punctuation

In considering the Origin of Species, it is quite conceivable that a naturalist... might come to the conclusion that each species had not been independently created, but had descended, like varieties, from other species. - Charles Darwin On the Origin of Species
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
En el mundo hay multitud de idiomas, y cada uno tiene su propio significado. - I Corintios 14:10
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
A devout people with its back to the wall can be pushed deeper and deeper into hardening religious nativism, in the end even preferring national suicide to religious compromise. - Colin Wells Sailing from Byzantium

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2007 9:01 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2007 8:03 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 242 (417119)
08-19-2007 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Greatest I am
08-19-2007 9:06 AM


Re: Phats Philosophy
The trouble with placing Jesus as part of the trinity is that He would have to time travel back and forth and live before His mother Mary.
You've really never read the Bible, have you?
quote:
John 17:5 -- And now, glorify Me along with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
And”
quote:
John 1:1 -- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) He was in the beginning with God.
...
(14) And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Christ existed with God before the world came into existence”long before Mary. Whether it makes sense or not, I'm not sure enough to say; it is, however, what it is: no time travel necessary.
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2007 9:06 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by ringo, posted 08-19-2007 4:26 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 64 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2007 7:38 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 242 (417357)
08-20-2007 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Greatest I am
08-20-2007 8:03 AM


Re: Eve commited suicide.
I don't recall chapter and verse but It is said that God cast out a third of the angels to earth in Revelation.
Revelations? That's all the way at the end of the book; how did it happen before anything else?
The main evidence that we are to eat of it with God's blessing is that we are here doing it...
What are you talking about?
Genesis makes it very clear that after they ate of the tree God was P.I.S.S.E.D!!!
To work the earth a knowledge of good and evil are a must.
More garbage. After they ate of the tree, they had the knowledge of good and evil”whether God liked it or not”, and when He sent them from the garden and gave them their punishments, He did so with that in mind.
God told them not to eat the fruit! God was FURIOUS after they had done so!
If the man has reached a point of grace that is God like, why deny him immortality.
Because, the punishment for eating from the first tree was death. Had they been allowed immortality, they never would've taken God seriously. Kind of like when you tell your kids they'll get punished when they do something, they do it, and you don't punish them... pretty soon the little hooligans are walking all over you.
If He were not pleased we would not be here.
No, if He were not pleased, He would see to it that we are all punished in the same way as Adam and Eve... oh look, WE ARE!
...not allow organic life to be immortal.
That's the idea; if you want immortality, you have to earn it. Christ was sent here to show us how.
...man would have no history because almost all things or issues have a good and evil side.
Man would have lots of history; we would simply be unable to judge it to be good or evil. Just because something can be seen as good or evil does not mean that either good or evil must exist in order for the event to take place. Your causality is... all messed up.
1st- Event happens
2nd- It is judged to be good or evil
They warned me not to start with you. I should've listened; you're f---ing insane!
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2007 8:03 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2007 5:53 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 242 (417430)
08-21-2007 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Greatest I am
08-20-2007 5:53 PM


Re: Eve commited suicide.
Without Eve eating of it you would be, as we all would be, too dumb to judge.
Thank God Eve was brighter than you and chose knowledge. Where would we all be without it.
Eating grass in the field like cows probably. You can have that.
This is all irrelevant to the issue of whether or not God approved of the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, whether or not He wanted humans to know the difference between good and evil, and if He was happy about it or not.
So, again, point out where the Bible says God was tickled silly that humans suddenly had knowledge of good and evil.
Thanks,
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2007 5:53 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Greatest I am, posted 08-21-2007 4:48 AM Jon has not replied

  
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