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Author | Topic: The first 3 chapters of Genesis | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jar writes: They presented the Transcendant GOD first, and then transition to the Personal GOD that walks with us, talks with us. Kinda like how a movie starts with a long shot to establish the scene and then zooms in on the main characters and action? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
In the case of Genesis the redactors place the newer tale first. It is a more sophisticated model than the older tale seen in Genesis 2. Why? Why not merge them together as they did in the other places? IMHO the different pictures of God are what is important. Each one shows a facet of God, an important thing we need to understand, that GOD is both Transcendant and Personal, Distant and Near. They presented the Transcendant GOD first, and then transition to the Personal GOD that walks with us, talks with us. Yeah, we have all this bullshit, but, Jar, why were they punished? You said you did not say they were not punished. Assuming you are not a sophist, that means they were punished. Why?
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Exactly.
They handled things different in other areas, the Flood myth includes at least two stories merged together, same with Exodus, but here, at the beginning they deal with the essence of the issue, with the very Nature of GOD. Here, they felt it so important that they included the two mutually exclusive stories, even though they could see the inconsistencies and conflicting character. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3626 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Jewish interpreters I've talked to recognize Genesis not just as a book of origins, but a book about family conflict. One sotry after anohter deal swith this theme. It starts with the first couple's loss of innocence at the beginning.
One thing that's apparent to me, whatever interpretive approach people take: no one can say for sure what would have happened in the story if Adam and Eve made a different choice. One reason interpretations have proliferated through history is because Genesis doesn't spell out what a permanent stay in Eden would have involved. They didn't stay, so, as far as the story is concerned, it doesn't matter. One clear implication of the story: had they not disobeyed, they would not have been expelled and their lives would have been cushier, more innocent, and more ignorant. Going much beyond this entails conjecture. The traditions that have sprouted around the story in the centuries since? Conjecture as well--to try to settle theological issues or satisfy the curious. Genesis isn't in the business of telling us what would have happened if. It presents each story as is. Margaret Mitchell was constantly bothered by Gone With the Wind fans asking her if Rhett Butler ever returned to Scarlett. She said (I'm paraphrasing) 'The story ended with him walking out. That's the end of the book, and the end of the characters!' . Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Clarity. Archer All species are transitional.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
They handled things different in other areas, the Flood myth includes at least two stories merged together, same with Exodus, but here, at the beginning they deal with the essence of the issue, with the very Nature of GOD. Here, they felt it so important that they included the two mutually exclusive stories, even though they could see the inconsistencies and conflicting character Look at this nonsense. We are trying to come up with the facts of the literature, and we get this. We are trying to find out what happened in the story, but apparently this is troublesome. But it's obvious that Adam and Eve disobeyed God and were therefore punished. Stop this sophistry. I know it does not fit with modern ideas, but that's not the point of this thread.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It starts with the first couple's loss of innocence at the beginning. I think the issue of innocence is very important. It forms the basics for everything that follows. It is the big difference, the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that is the basis of Theology. Only if Man is capable of knowing right from wrong is there any basis for the rest of the Bible. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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iano Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Look at this nonsense.
They handled things different in other areas, the Flood myth includes at least two stories merged together, same with Exodus, but here, at the beginning they deal with the essence of the issue, with the very Nature of GOD. Here, they felt it so important that they included the two mutually exclusive stories, even though they could see the inconsistencies and conflicting character Look what you've done! I cannot agree with Robin for fear of incurring your wrath - despite what Jar says reading like the manuals that used to come with Japanese equipment 20 years ago.
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Clark Inactive Member |
I agree with Robin that God punished Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:16-19.
They handled things different in other areas, the Flood myth includes at least two stories merged together, same with Exodus, but here, at the beginning they deal with the essence of the issue, with the very Nature of GOD. Here, they felt it so important that they included the two mutually exclusive stories, even though they could see the inconsistencies and conflicting character. I don't have a problem with this either.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
I don't have a problem with this either. That's not the point. The point is that Adam and Eve disobeyed and were punished. Jar says this is non-sensical since A & E did not know right from wrong. But we are not talking about whether it is sensible or not, but only what the story relates. And that is what the story relates. Jar and others are trying to inject into the story what is not there---as they do with the New Testament. I can't think why. The only idea I have is that they want to hold on to the name of "Christian." Is that it, Jar?
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Michael Member (Idle past 4666 days) Posts: 199 From: USA Joined: |
Jar and others are trying to inject into the story what is not there---as they do with the New Testament. I can't think why. The only idea I have is that they want to hold on to the name of "Christian." The puzzle for me is why you spend thread upon thread trying to take the name "Christian" away from them.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The puzzle for me is why you spend thread upon thread trying to take the name "Christian" away from them. Pleasure, pleasure--why does one do anything?
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Michael Member (Idle past 4666 days) Posts: 199 From: USA Joined: |
You seem very strange and very silly.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
You seem very strange and very silly. How am I silly? Do you do nothing for pleasure?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robinrohan writes: Jar and others are trying to inject into the story what is not there You're the one who's injecting what isn't there: a fictitious world in which there is child-free childbirth and work-free gardening. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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iano Member (Idle past 1969 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
The puzzle for me is why you spend thread upon thread trying to take the name "Christian" away from them. I think (in context) that its more a case of (Robins) God brushing aside (their) Adams fig leaf and asking them "have you eaten of the tree?" Of course Adam is going to point any and everywhere. Robin isn't Admin however and cannot banish them from the garden. That is where the analogy breaks down a little
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