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Author Topic:   What is a True Christian?
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 46 of 329 (110209)
05-24-2004 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
05-19-2004 8:21 AM


Rockhound quote:
______________________________________________________________________
This has come up again and again, and always in the same pattern - if someone disagrees with creationism or another fundamentalist position, then they are not 'true Christians'
______________________________________________________________________
Not true.
You most certainly can disagree, and you most certainly should be able to disagree without someone changing the subject and accusing you of not being a "true christian".
The only problem was that YOU wrote a post that said my position cannot be the position of a true christian BECAUSE in your view I was not "turning the other cheek.....loving my neighbor".
You are perfectly representative of the world at large that believes the Sermon on the Mount and complying with its directives is the goal for christians.
The Sermon on the Mount:
NOBODY can keep the precepts and laws contained therein. It is a sledgehammer intended to show everyone that they cannot do it. Jesus said if you even DESIRE to sin, in God's eyes you are guilty as if you did it.
Jesus changed the Law to a even more impossible standard - a standard that only Jesus would fulfill and keep. Nobody can love their enemy, nobody can refrain from lusting in their heart, nobody can cease from hating - ONLY Jesus could. He preached all these things so we would come to the conclusion that we CANNOT live up to this Divine standard.
This Sermon was shoes that only Jesus could fill - the Law Incarnate.
When He fulfilled the Law God crucified Him thus killing the impossible standard that mankind could not keep.
The purpose of the Sermon on the Mount is to make mankind conclude that they cannot do it, it is intended to drive them to the GOSPEL, which is the only other God ordained alternative, something we can do.
The Sermon on the Mount's purpose is to scare the hell out of you and drive you to the gospel (way of faith) as the only other way to relate to God through the risen Christ.
Does this mean we can sin ? I didn't say that. Remaining in sins is not an alternative. The gospel embraced will have God free you from your sinning nature as we pursue the gospel/faith.
Rockhound wants to ignore my pointy points and lump it all to be hate
filled ranting. Then he asserts himself superior and justifies it with a pea brained citing of scripture.
YOUR lifelong understanding of the Sermon is error !
The goal is not imitation through carnal discipline, rather, spiritual fruition via the power of the gospel.
I hate the destruction of the Constitution by persons who have successfully changed original intent. In my opinion every true christian should hate that too.
If you say you don't hate then you are a liar. Everyone hates. A true christian is hated by the world because Jesus said a servant is no different from his master. They hated Jesus - they will hate you too.
Whats a true christian ?
Paul the Apostle.
If your christianity doesn't cause a riot - then you are a luke warm compromiser who cares more about the praise of men than of God.
I really don't care what non christians think of me, but if any god damn fundementalist says one critical word about me then I will PROVE from scripture that YOU are the worst piece of God damn shit on the face of the Earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 05-19-2004 8:21 AM IrishRockhound has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by riVeRraT, posted 05-25-2004 9:11 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 76 by MonkeyBoy, posted 05-25-2004 9:27 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 214 by Shaz, posted 01-02-2005 8:22 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 55 of 329 (110242)
05-24-2004 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by purpledawn
05-24-2004 8:49 PM


Re: Spiritual Maturity
Purpledawn quote:
______________________________________________________________________
For me personally, I know the limits of my own spiritual maturity, consider the source, turn my self-control on high, and answer as unemotionally as possible.
______________________________________________________________________
This comment is a superb example of what christianity IS NOT !
A christian is a person who has the Spirit of God dwelling in them. That Spirit does not come inside and manifest Christ's resurrection power via SELF CONTROL/willpower/discipline. The Spirit enters and remains by a continuing act of faith upon a promise of God.
It is pure heresy to present christianity as some sort of allegiance to a code of conduct/set of rules.
Christianity is about coming into relationship with God through Christ. The journey begins by faith, continues by faith, and ends by faith. This is the message of the N.T. Purpledawn and others are disciples of Moses with Jesus on their lips and law in their hearts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by purpledawn, posted 05-24-2004 8:49 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by purpledawn, posted 05-24-2004 11:20 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 57 of 329 (110251)
05-24-2004 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by wmscott
05-24-2004 6:35 PM


Re: What true Christains are.
wmscott:
Where in your perspective is the gospel ?
I read a lot of subjective rules that probably originate from your denomination.
I cannot find one word of gospel in your post.
Where is the good news/gospel ?
I bet you cannot even properly define the gospel much less communicate what it means.
This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 05-24-2004 10:27 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by wmscott, posted 05-24-2004 6:35 PM wmscott has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Gilgamesh, posted 05-25-2004 12:38 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 132 by wmscott, posted 05-27-2004 5:02 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 58 of 329 (110254)
05-24-2004 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by purpledawn
05-24-2004 11:20 PM


Re: Spiritual Maturity
Very intelligent response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by purpledawn, posted 05-24-2004 11:20 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 83 of 329 (110498)
05-25-2004 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by MonkeyBoy
05-25-2004 9:27 AM


Go ahead Monkey and criticize me - no problem.
Presently, I am containing an inner rage against fundementalist christians. They are to blame for misrepresenting God and the message of the N.T.
I am monitoring this debate while preparing my next topic which is tentatively titled "What God Thinks of Fundementalism".
I recently read an excerpt in a book called "Lucifer Rising", which is a collection of interviews with satanists. One of these fine individuals is under indictment for burning down 8 churches and is under 24 hour police surveillance. Someone noticed that none of the 8 churches burned were fundementalist churches, when they asked him why he replied:
" because Satan forbid me to burn down fundementalist churches.....he wants them to prosper because they put people in bondage.....fundementalist christianity is the only thing about christianity that I like...."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by MonkeyBoy, posted 05-25-2004 9:27 AM MonkeyBoy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by johnfolton, posted 05-26-2004 12:05 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 89 by MonkeyBoy, posted 05-26-2004 7:32 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 96 by IrishRockhound, posted 05-26-2004 9:37 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 134 of 329 (111003)
05-28-2004 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by wmscott
05-27-2004 5:02 PM


No wmscott you are avoiding the defectiveness of your post.
It contained nothing about the gospel BECAUSE Moses is in your heart not Jesus.
Your message is:
Jesus saves but after conversion the way to relate to God/Jesus is via conforming to a code of conduct/law keeping.
The gospel wasn't on your heart because no matter what you now claim it takes a back seat to surface conformity to Moses law.
Moses is dead. He wasn't allowed into the promise land because God is teaching a larger truth that conformity to Law doesn't get you in the promise land - only faith does, which by definition has nothing to do with Mosaic law. (Romans 3:20, 21 NewKJV)
Moses was too associated with the Law, he could not enter because it would serve as a "distruth" to the truth that only faith inherits the promises of God/entering the promise land. (Hebrews 3)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by wmscott, posted 05-27-2004 5:02 PM wmscott has replied

Replies to this message:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 173 of 329 (113451)
06-07-2004 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by crashfrog
06-06-2004 9:18 PM


quote:
CRASHFROG: Faith may be a way of knowing, but it provides absolutely nothing in terms of helping us know we know.
Yes it does, because faith has an end and that end is when God manifests what you are believing Him in faith for. This is called promise received, and when this happens you need to go on to the next one (promise) and continue in the life of faith to faith. (Romans1:17)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by crashfrog, posted 06-06-2004 9:18 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by crashfrog, posted 06-08-2004 2:05 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 176 of 329 (113712)
06-08-2004 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by crashfrog
06-08-2004 2:05 AM


quote:
CRASHFROG: God doesn't seem to answer prayers in any statistically meaningful way, so who's to say he's doing it at all?
People who credit Him with answering prayer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by crashfrog, posted 06-08-2004 2:05 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by crashfrog, posted 06-09-2004 2:22 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 178 of 329 (113928)
06-09-2004 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by crashfrog
06-09-2004 2:22 AM


quote:
CRASHFROG: But who's to say they're right, since there's no objective evidence they can provide? Who's to say they're crediting the right entity?
In a court of law persons testimony is judged by the jury and judge as to its truthfulness. Corroborating evidence is used to confirm or impeach testimony. Many times the entire body of evidence/case comes down to the believability of the witness because the corroborating evidence is a push.
Jesus did miracles in the presence of the Pharisees and they still didn't believe. There is no "objective evidence" that you could be swayed with. Richard Dawkins/Crashfrog said if a statue of the Virgin Mary were to wave at you then you didn't really see what you saw. In other words, miracles don't exist no matter what. This worldview doesn't allow miracles so the front of "objective evidence" is a lie.
Which entity ?
The one who got the answered prayer - whomever they credit.
Your position is to dismiss the whole (baby with the bathwater) because you deem the entire subject unworthy of research to find out.
The answers await in the study of comparitive religion.
This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 06-09-2004 06:11 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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