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Author Topic:   What is a True Christian?
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 779 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 165 of 329 (112863)
06-04-2004 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by nator
06-03-2004 11:25 PM


Re: Yes!
I am NOT saying that your prayers aren't being answered.
I am simply saying that without the kind of record keeping and exactuitude that counters the very natural and normal confirmation bias that we all use every day, you have no idea at all if your prayers are being "answered" at a rate greater than plain old random chance would predict.
About nine months ago I had three very important and specific prayer requests answered the very next day all within a week. After this, I decided to write my prayers in my journal so I could remember exactly what I prayed for when it was answered. About a month or so later I desperately needed help and encouragement in a certain situation. I wrote my prayer down. The next day sitting in chapel the speaker repeated with the same exact vocabulary my problem as I had written it and the solution. I have had many other prayers answered in all kinds of ways. I had another specific prayer answered 2 days ago in a most awesome and amazing way!!! (I met a girl...!) This answer came less than a week after my prayer. Today as I was sitting on the lifeguard stand I tried and tried to remember a prayer that God had never answered (some are still pending, but I am patient). I couldn't think of one. (I'm sure there must be some from my younger more vulnerable years) Off the top of my head I can think of 8 unique specific prayer requests this year that have been answered the next day and in such a way that chance does not factor in.
If you pray in full faith and for the right reason that a mountain will be dropped into the sea, it will be so.
I have also heard several missionary speakers in school chapels this year. Some of these people's lives are on the line 24 hours a day because of their objective to spread the gospel of Christ. Many of their prayers were answered in ways that are nothing short of miraculous (neither chance nor reason can explain them).
If one really wants to see God work in amazing ways, all one needs do is get outside one's comfort zone and walk completely by faith according to His will.
This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 06-04-2004 10:13 PM

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by nator, posted 06-03-2004 11:25 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by nator, posted 06-05-2004 8:59 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied
 Message 204 by Kapyong, posted 06-24-2004 6:02 AM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 779 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 166 of 329 (112868)
06-04-2004 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Loudmouth
06-04-2004 6:23 PM


Re: Yes!
At the same time, riverrat should recognize that people have also found personal truth within different religions and philosophies. For him, christianity and the teachings of Jesus are the be all, end all. Judging by how this has affected his life, I am glad that riverrat has found this path in life. Happiness is a hard thing to find sometimes, and people shouldn't be discouraged for finding this happiness. However, at times it seems that adherents to religious sects (christianity among them) claim that they alone hold the path to spiritual salvation and total happiness. In my opinion, this just doesn't make sense given the number of non-christians and non-religious people who have fulfilling and happy lives.
There are two kinds of happiness really. A great degree of happiness can be obtained by believers and unbelievers alike through morality, humility, conventional wisdom, common sense, and wonderful life experiences. Whether one accepts Christianity or not there are certain principles of life that make life great. These principles are completely outlined in the Bible, but God has also written them on the hearts and minds of all men. For example, I heard a missionary speak about her work in Papua New Guinea with the Sipekeewam (sp?) tribe. These people had lived the in isolation and in the same way for thousands of years. They never new of an outside world, a white man, an internal combustion engine, or anything of the like. Yet when this missionary first communicated with the tribe leader, he explained to her the rules that their tribe followed. These rules included most of the ten commandments (except the ones concerning God). The people also lived according to the rule, do unto others as you would have others do unto you. These people were generally happy with their life in the jungle. As are many people in many other religions who abide by these universal principles that lead to happiness.
However, there is another and far greater happiness that IS the monopoly of Christians. It comes from the understanding of God's infinite greatness of character, our comparitive obscurity, and his great love and ultimate humble sacrifice for us. It comes from a personal relationship with Him. We know that he is willing to do anything for our benefit and works all things together for our good if we love him. No other religion involves this reciprocal love relationship with God that Christianity does. There is no love relationship in nirvana or with vishnu or the brama bull. There is no love relationship with allah. There is no love relationship with a personal God in animism or dieism or any other form of religion. All other forms of religion may contain the universal principles of life that Christianity does, but they also all contain a system of works by which a greater end is achieved. Christianity is the only religion where God has done all the work for us. All we have to do is learn to accept his gift and enjoy our relationship with Him.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Loudmouth, posted 06-04-2004 6:23 PM Loudmouth has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 779 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 170 of 329 (113000)
06-06-2004 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by nator
06-05-2004 8:46 PM


Re: Yes!
Random chance isn't the "cause" of anything.
There are many causes for many things.
You are right. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love the Lord and to those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28
There is a wonderful experiment that has been done many times which demonstrates our propensity for confirmation bias.
I have read a horroscope or two before and it was very obvious to me how they work. They play to people's arrogance by giving general flattering statements about a person. They give qualities that most people have or assume they have or wish they had. In answered prayers however, God often leaves reassuring clues that let you know that He planned your answer specifically for you. Contrary to horroscopes answered prayers never play to my arrogance, but always increase my humility.
If God answering yes sometimes and no at other times is indestinguishable from random chance, why pray? The practical outcome is exactly the same.
There are various reasons why God may not answer a prayer: unaddressed sin, lack of faith, etc. However, assuming a person is in fellowship with God and has faith, God never simply dismisses our prayers.
There are two parts to every prayer: the pettition and the motive behind it. Sometimes God answers the pettition precisely thereby answering the motive, sometimes he does not answer the pettition but answers the motive. As we learn more Bible doctrine and gain the "mind of Christ" our thinking becomes more in line with God's, and our pettions and motives fall into line with his will. An immature Christian may ask God to win the lottery thinking it will bring happiness, but God knows such wealth would ruin him and make him miserable.
And sometimes to show us the stupidity of our request and the false motive behind it he answers the pettition, but not the motive.
A personal example of the last would be a few years ago (I am 18 now) when I was a stupid arrogant hormone driven freshmen, I asked God for something I thought reasonable at the time. I had seen God working in my life in the last year and naively felt like I was very mature. I said to God, "All right. I think I'm fairly spiritually mature, and I really wish I had someone to share life with and to love with all my heart." And I went on... I want to gag thinking of it now... God must have gotten a chuckle from it. My pettition was basically for a girlfriend, my motive was happiness apart from my relationship with God. The next morning, the phone rings and its the most beautiful girl I had ever known (she had recently moved away). She had come for a visit. To make a long story short I was miserably hoplessly in love/lust for a long while and had a stupid empty long distance relationship with her.
You may say this would have happened no matter whether I had prayed that prayer or not, but believing that she was the answer to my prayer was what gave me the... testicular fortitude to go for it. Praying this prayer also taught me great, painful, and unforgettable lessons about true love and true happiness, which I would otherwise have not learned.
If you request that the entire world be peaceful and free of hunger and strife, I'd say the chances of your request being granted are quite low.
Actually the chances of this happening are 100%. In the millineum this will be so, but not in this dispensation.
Of course, if God was really all-powerful and in charge, the liklihood of something happening would be irrelevant. God could just do it.
He can and will, but in this age, the age of the church, God has determined that His power will be expressed through the lives of individual believers. He has allowed pain and suffering, a by-product of sin, in this life to bring into high relief his mercy and love, and the greatness of the eternal life we are stepping into to those who accept Him.
I mean, how many millions of people over thousands of years have prayed to God to stop all hunger, and to stop all war, and he has never seen fit to answer a single one of those prayers?
But he seems to listen to you. Why not pray for the end of hunger and war and see if he answers those prayers?
Why pray for God to do something now that he has already told us he will not do now? Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars until I come, but do not be alarmed for these things must come to pass. If God said, "Screw it. Forget the tribulation and the rest of the church age and all of the things I was going to do. I'm going to start my earthly kingdom now," He would be going back on his word. Of course this idea is absurd because God is not bound by time and does not change his mind.
It isn't the individual answered prayers that prove anything, mike. It is the success rate over time.
You desire God to be like a computer. You desire him to be under your control and always give the desired output. You assume that your wisdom is greater than God's.
However, we are like the children to an infinitely superior father. What good father gives a child a candy bar every time he asks for one and never gives him discipline when he deserves it? It is not the number of candy bars a child gets per request that determines if he has a good father, it is how the child grows and matures by his father's loving interaction and discipline that shows how well a father has done his job.
The proof is not in the success rate of prayer over time. This is only an indication of a believer's maturity and conformity to the image of Christ. The proof is in the growth in faith and power in the believer's spiritual life.
Some people expect God to produce a miraculous answer every time they pray. He does this sometimes usually for the purpose of strengthening the faith of that believer. From God's perspective, though, what's so great about a miracle? He has the ability and has excercised the ability to answer all of our prayers simply working things together for our good within the natural order of his creation. This to me is far more amazing than making something appear out of thin air.
He has answered most of our prayers before we pray them. So why pray them if they are already in the process of being answered? We can only profit spiritually by the answers if realize where they came from.
Prayer strengthens our relationship with God and is also a powerful tool. God has determined to answer the prayers offered in faith of those who live according to His will.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by nator, posted 06-05-2004 8:46 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by nator, posted 06-21-2004 12:52 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 779 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 198 of 329 (117243)
06-21-2004 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Steve
06-21-2004 3:55 PM


Amen to that!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 3:55 PM Steve has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 779 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 199 of 329 (117271)
06-21-2004 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by mike the wiz
06-21-2004 5:30 PM


Re: Yes!
Well, IMHO I believe people have been abducted by fallen angels a.k.a. aliens. But thats another story...
I think Handdawg asked for a girlfriend and recieved one the next day.
Yes and it was hell on earth for 2 years after that for me. God proved to me that happiness was not to be found there.
My knees and ankles became hyperextended, swollen, and unflexible by a swimming overuse injury. This caused the swim coach to quit the idiotic practice of making her swimmers swim in tennis shoes for strength training. This was an answered prayer. My parents prayed that my knees and ankles would heal. A year later I was on the wrestling team with no problems. (for the last two and a half years I had not been able to squat or kneel at all). I prayed that God would guide me to the right College. He did. I prayed that God would alow me to win a highly comptetitive AFROTC scholarship. He did. I pray that God will humble me. He does this ALWAYS. I pray that God will strengthen and sustain our troops and that they will come to know him. I'm reading now about how an entire Marine batallion (1000 troops) received Christ in Iraq. I prayed for two opportunities to talk to my immature highschool friends about God. I got those opportunities the next day. I prayed for an answer to a personal problem and got it the next day with the specific question answered in the same vocabulary. I prayed recently for a friendship to go witnessing. 7 days later I met someone in Church who wants to get a group together to do just that. I prayed for my alcoholic friend, that she would come back to God and stop running away from everything by getting drunk. She is a very humble girl and is studying God's word vigorously now and has quit drinking. I prayed for another friend who was headed down the wrong path. I knew she would lead a life of misery, so I prayed God would spare her that. A week later she died in a car accident and went to heaven. And I'll shutup now to keep you from getting bored. But God has answered my prayers in a fantastic way that no one else can understand.
I suppose one cannot ever satisfy you Schraff
You are right Mike. It is a simple choice: to believe or not to believe. It is not up to anything we can say or argue, it is up to the power of the Holy Spirit working in the humble. Thats how it has to be. Only those who recognize their own obscurity can see things clearly.
What are the success rates of people praying to be healed of a specific illness?
That is not the main purpose of prayer. It is so sad that many Christians do not understand the purpose of prayer. Prayer is not an easy out for every suffering. So many people experience some difficulty, often brought about by their own arrogance and go around asking everyone to pray for them, because God's got the devil after them. Prayer is not designed to remove divine discipline or warrant divine blessing.
Prayer is almost NEVER for asking for personal blessings or an end of personal suffering. What we have is what God has given us by grace. What suffering we endure is what God intends for us to bear. God blesses us abundantly in his perfect timing. He certainly has been faithful to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by mike the wiz, posted 06-21-2004 5:30 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by mike the wiz, posted 06-21-2004 10:10 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied
 Message 205 by Kapyong, posted 06-24-2004 6:21 AM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 779 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 206 of 329 (118467)
06-24-2004 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Kapyong
06-24-2004 6:21 AM


Re: Yes!
Hello Iasion,
I was not listing some of my prayers and their answers in the hopes of proving to an atheist that God exists. I certainly don't expect them to convince you or anyone else. I said that to believe or not to believe is a simple choice.
In my life where prayer is answered God brings me to a point where nothing in my power can help me and I do not know what to do. I pray for help. I have faith that God can help. I trust that his plan for me is perfect. I get help. I KNOW it is God because I have faith. You do not have faith so it is foolishness to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Kapyong, posted 06-24-2004 6:21 AM Kapyong has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 779 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 209 of 329 (122855)
07-08-2004 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Trixie
07-05-2004 6:42 AM


Re: What IS a Christian? My opinion
I agree very much with what you said.
The arguments in the Non-Christian moral code have got me thinking. Here's what I'm thinking:
Anyone who has believed in Christ is in the family of God and therefore may be called a Christian.
We are commanded as Christians to be "ambassadors for Christ". We do this by obeying his commands, following his moral code, and loving and serving God and others. If we do not obey his commands, then we are not acting as ambassadors in the name of Christ, but are derelecting our duty. In a sense we are no longer acting as Christians (I'm not saying we've lost our salvation), but if we are no longer attempting to represent our namesake as ambassadors, then we do not deserve to go by the designation of "Christian" up to a point. Certainly no Christian is perfect.
Anyone who believes in Christ is a Christian in that he is saved by grace through faith, but anyone who does not act according to his commands is not a Christian in his ambassadorship.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Trixie, posted 07-05-2004 6:42 AM Trixie has not replied

  
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