Psychology looks at atheism and theism. Also, atheism is tenuous/non-existent/rare ..

TO: Darwin StormI have no problem with you not believing I am a Christian if you choose to do so. However, given the plentitude of current and past Christian martyrs it will be hard for you do deny that there are Christians and have been Christians.Sincerely,Ken

Yes, I did. I offered myself as proof. You still haven't refuted it.

TO: chiropteraYou never proved to me that you are an atheist and do not waver often. You have to show your testimony is unimpeachable. I see no reason why your testimony should be given carte blanche acceptance. I do not consider your testimony to be the gospel truth. Nothing personal. I just do not.If you use a appeal to authority next I will know you are chsalvia at TWEB.Sincerely,Ken

LOL, what do you mean christian martyrs (by this I take it you mean people who died for their beliefs?)?
That in no way supports your assertion that you are a christian. In fact, who is to say they were christisans? For all we know, they were deluded Hindus led astray by shiva, to destroy them......

TO: darwin stormIf you do not wish to believe that I am not overly concerned that you believe I am a Christian I have no problems with this either.Second, when you produce one materialist martyr then you will have earned the right to dismiss Christian ones.Third here are some Quotes for you:Martyrdom has always been a proof of the intensity, never of the correctness of a belief.~ Arthur Schnitzler ~The martyr cannot be dishonored. Every lash inflicted is a tongue of fame; every prison a more illustrious abode.~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~There are in every generation those who shrink from the ultimate sacrifice, but there are in every generation those who make it with joy and laughter and these are the salt of the generations.~ Patrick Henry Pearse ~

Here are a couple of other quotes:Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it. MARTYRDOM is the test.Samuel Johnson 1709-1784, British AuthorWho falls for love of God shall rise a star.
- Ben Jonson, Underwoods--An Epistle to a Friend (32)

How do "martyrs" validate anything. Heck, you even provide a quote that says exactly that marytrdome doesn't equate correctness. I have no doubt that there have been athiests that have been persecuted and killed for their beliefs in the past, probably in the name of various churches as well. However, personal belief has always been a statment from personal authority, and can't be otherwise. Your professed belief that your are a christian has to be taken at face value, because you claim it to be what you believe. Since we are not psychic, and I like to assume people aren't lying, I am willing to take your word on it. Now, that doesn't mean I believe in a god, but I am willing to believe that you do. I have the capacity to understand a viewpoint other than my own. I think you may lack this ability. If you wish to call me a liar, fine. If you wish to believe that atheism doesn't exist, fine. However, that doesn't change my personal belief that no dieties exist, and that we all wind up as nothing more than decomposing chemical soups when we die. My beliefs do not depend on your acceptance or understanding.This message has been edited by Darwin Storm, 09-01-2004 10:30 PM

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You have to show your testimony is unimpeachable.

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Why is this? You really doubt that I am telling the truth about my beliefs? Do you think I am lying? Do you need a sworn, notarized affidavit? Do you think I don't understand my beliefs? Do you need a phychologist's report? Or are you merely setting an unreasonably high standard?At any rate, I know what I believe. If you are unwilling to listen to me about my beliefs, what can I say? The best proof that atheism exists is to present the atheists themselves -- but if you are just going to claim that their testimony isn't unimpeachable, then what can I say? You have made an assertian and now you proceed to discount any evidence that shows you wrong.So, what is your reason for posting this here? Are you just trying to get a rise out of people?

Che Guevara.Dismissed.

BTW, I can play the quote game as well...

You wrote:

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I have no doubt that there have been athiests that have been persecuted and killed for their beliefs in the past, probably in the name of various churches as well.

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Regretably, I lack a belief you have no doubt in this matter.Regarding taking people at face value:

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... I like to assume people aren't lying, I am willing to take your word on it.

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Regrettably world history is replete with evidence that men are corrupt just as the Bible states. With this in mind, I agree with the sentiments J.P. Morgan in terms of taking professed atheist at their word that they are in fact true atheist:A man always has two reasons for doing anything: a good reason and the real reason.J. P. MorganYou also said:

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Now, that doesn't mean I don't believe in a god, but I am willing to believe that you do.

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Given all the Christian martyrs strongly suggesting there are Christians and the subject matter in my initial post plus other matters I will not discuss at this time this is not a gigantic leap of faith.Next, you said:

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If you wish to call me a liar, fine. If you wish to believe that atheism doesn't exist, fine.

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I do not wish to call you a liar. However, I still lack a belief there are real atheist especially those who do not waver. Given the material in my above post I believe I am entirely justified in this lack of belief.Lastly, you still have not provided any real evidence that atheists exist.

TO: Darwin StormI saw your Nietschze quote.Isn't Nietschze the man who died in a mental institution. Perhaps you are adding fuel to the fire in regards to this threads title!Of course, you can say Nietschze insanity was caused by physical causes but do remember in debates he who asserts must provide compelling evidence.

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...Do remember in debates he who asserts must provide compelling evidence.

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TO: ChiropteraYou seem to be making the same mistake as Voltaire often did with your attempted satire. Regrettably, satire is no substitution for evidence though. You have not done the following:1. Provided evidence that professed atheism enhances mental wellness.2. Provided evidence that atheism exist.I provided the Mayo clinic's evidence for faith and/or religious behaviors being correlated to mental wellness.

How does dying support anything?