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Author
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Topic: Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough?
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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archaeologist writes: for the former, i have. for the latter not so much. you all do the same thing, you will blindly defend systems knowing they are bad, just because i or some other christian supports healing by prayer and exposes those inferior medical practices. To expose something you must publish the study that supports your assertions. If you have the data to support your expos then this is certainly a great opportunity to present it.
as for the poster whose wife is a 'doctor' you attack christians, she is fair game. I am a Christian. Am I 'fair game'?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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without God there is NO morality. I'm sorry but that is not just false, it is misrepresenting what the Bible actually says. In Genesis 3 God himself says that
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22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
therefore man has the capability to determine morality. BUT... the Bible goes even further and says that at times man is charged to even instruct God on matters of morality, to correct God when God is about to make an immoral decision. Read Genesis 18.
quote:
23And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? 25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? 26And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. 27And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and ashes: 28Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. 29And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. 30And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. 31And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. 32And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. 33And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
there are no human rights without religious beliefs or did you learn nothing from your history lessons on the nazis, the japanese, the khmer rouge, the communists...? you just do not know what you are talking about and let your hatred do your thinking for you More nonsense. Hitler was a devout Christian and acted based on his Christian beliefs. From Mein Kampf:
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"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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archaeologist writes: i rarely reply to JAR as he is so off it isn't funny but in this case i will make an exception.
jar writes: To expose something you must publish the study that supports your assertions. no i don't. i just have to speak the truth. scientific studies are so limited and manipulated that they cannot be counted on. Did you say
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for the former, i have. for the latter not so much. you all do the same thing, you will blindly defend systems knowing they are bad, just because i or some other christian supports healing by prayer and exposes those inferior medical practices.
in the very message I was replying to? What exactly is your plan to support healing by prayer and expose those inferior medical practices?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Actually, no
archaeologist writes: in other words, you cannot outlaw faith healing, or criminalize parents for praying for the health of their child. We certainly can and should charge them with abuse when they choose prayer over medical treatment for children and murder if the children die because they did not get treatment. Edited by jar, : fix the sentence
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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archaeologist writes: i am done with this thread as i have said about all i can say and i have started to repeat myself. keep in mind, these parents were wracked with emotions, and desire to see God miracuously heal their child. they did nothing wrong. Of course they did something wrong. They willfully remained ignorant and believed their Bible over the actual message that GOD left us, reality and the brain GOD gave them. They committed an act of Hubris and Blasphemed the GOD they claim to worship by refusing to use the tools GOD gave them.
archaeologist writes: people will always make decisions others will not agree with but that doesn't mean we criminalize everybody. itmeans that some people have to mind their own business and raise their families like God wants them to for they are not responsible for the decisions of others, they are responsible for their own. Yes, they should be responsible, and that is the point. They were held responsible for killing the child.
archaeologist writes: sometimes you just have to take your eyes off other people and see how bad a job you are doing. Yes, you should.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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archaeologist writes: yet God did NOT say 'use evidence' now did He? Of course he did say use evidence. Have you ever read the Bible? What was the purpose of the signs if not to be evidence? Did Jesus ask Peter to test the evidence by walking on water, ask Thomas to test the evidence by putting his hands in the holes? Do you plan on addressing the issue of murder by prayer?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: The Quality of Outrage
faith healing is NOT denying medical care, it is practicing a different kind of treatment and is not neglect, abuse or whatever, noris it against the law. the state cannot interfere with parental rights. Faith Healing is very likely an oxymoron, but it is certainly not medical care. I do think though that in the US, such practices are criminally protected, even when it leads to the death of a child. There should be Civil Suits possible against the practitioner though under product liability and professional practices laws. Then there is also the very important tool of ridicule which should be used often and loudly. Parents that teach their kids that Faith Healing is a substitute for conventional medical care should be ridiculed just as parents that teach their children that there was a Biblical Flood.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: The Quality of Outrage
I'm sorry that you consider it as baiting, it is certainly not meant that way. The fact is that Faith Healing is Constitutionally Protected and so I do not see how even when the result is the death of a child, it can be criminally prosecuted. However I do think that Civil Suits could be brought against the Church and the proponents of Faith Healing. If they make claims and then fail to live up to those claims, then it may well be possible to take Civil action against them. Finally there is the point of ridicule. While individuals that believe things like Faith Healing instead of Conventional Medical treatment or that the Biblical Flood actually happened may well be very nice people, those beliefs are just silly and the beliefs should be ridiculed. Such ridicule is unlikely to have a positive effect on the adults but ridicule is very useful tool with adolescents. It is only one tool to be used though. When it is coupled with presenting evidence and also encouraging children to challenge the beliefs of their parents it can and does work effectively.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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i do expect to hear hypocriful excuses in response. don't forget that medical treatment is governed BY MONEY, if you can't pay you do not get treated. (in most cases) so would you also prosecute the hospitals for not treating someone because they did not have insurance and the patient was sent to a LESSER capable facility? Of course that is not an issue in most developed countries. It is only the US and other third world countries where that is true.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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