Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough?

Does that include sexual abuse too, or does it just apply to letting them die of neglect?I'm always interested in the high moral principles of Christians.

Yeah, we left out all the really good laws about not eating lobsters and stoning people to death for picking up sticks on Saturday.But I digress. You seem to have ducked my question, which is a simple yes-or-no question. Let's ask it again.You say that "God gave PARENTS the right to raise their own children as THEY see fit". Does that include sexually abusing them? Yes or no?

Wait ... are you saying they died for want of medical attention?Rather than because not enough people prayed for them? Actually, your anecdote kinda supports the idea that people shouldn't be deprived of medical care. After all, if it isn't wrong to deprive people of medical care, what is the point of your story?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

But letting children die of neglect does?---I note that you're still not answering my question about whether you think it's OK for parents to sexually abuse their children. It's a simple yes or no question. Why can't you answer it?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

So medical care can make the difference between life and death?This is another yes-or-no question. And yet apparently you think that people can die for want of them.I think you should make up your mind.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Don't most people use both?An interesting question would be whether people who don't pray are less healthy. I wonder if I can find out.

There seems to be nothing in what you've quoted to suggest that they weren't ... And religious doctors. I don't want some religious nut torturing me to appease his imaginary God.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Did you pray for your friend?(I might add that to a theist all diseases, including actual death, are curable by an omnipotent God if he so chooses, so every single time a person who is prayed for dies, they have died of a curable disease.) No --- like all the other sane people participating on this thread, he believes that parents are obliged to try to keep their children alive, not to succeed.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

No, it's not even about that.

Such as keeping the child from dying of neglect. I don't demand to let children die of neglect, nor would I enjoy doing so.But then, I'm not a Christian. Our ideas of what is enjoyable probably differ. I notice that you still haven't answered my question.For the fourth time of asking, does this principle you've enunciated also apply to parents who sexually abuse their children? Yes or no?

But it is of course possible to criminalize using prayer as a substitute for doing something useful. Which is why the people in this case were in fact convicted of murder. A dead child. "A molehill". Yeah, murder's not so much, is it? I mean it only breaks one of the Ten Commandments. And for the sixth time of asking on this thread --- do you apply this same principle to parents who rape their children?Yes or no?Why can't you condemn incestuous rape? Is that another of the things you "demand" the "right" to "enjoy"?

Are you perfect?Only I've noticed that you condemn others quite a lot.I'm not sure I've seen you do anything else. We can convict them of murder when they don't.

They do not in fact have such a right. Hence the murder conviction.Moreover, in the Bible Christians are repeatedly enjoined to obey the laws of the civil authorities. See for example 1 Peter 2:13-8 and Romans 13:1-6. The very fact that the law says that they should have sought medical attention means that the Bible implicitly says so too.They have a perfect right to pray as well. Actually, this one is fairly clear-cut.

It would seem hard to construct an argument against killing children which does not refer to the fact that the result is dead children.If all such arguments are "not admissible" then why shouldn't we kill children?But perhaps you think we should. If the child died because, on religious grounds, they refused to give the child medical treatment, then I should certainly support their prosecution for murder. I think you'll find I can.Specifically, I can use it to show up your inconsistency and hypocrisy. My own beliefs tell me that murder is bad. The trick is to get you to admit it. So, you're still ducking the question.I can condemn incestuous rape, why can't you? A hundred and fifty years ago people like you were telling everyone that God approved of slavery and that abolitionism was an atheist position. Fortunately we live in a more civilized time, in which using the Bible to justify inhumanity will make you an object of ridicule and disgust ... as you are discovering.

You think you do --- a belief that you share with some of the grossest fools and wickedest monsters in history. I wouldn't have believed them, and I'm not tempted to believe you.But if you do learn from God, then next time the two of you chat could you ask him whether parents have the right to rape their children, or whether the government has a right to intervene? It's a question that you seem unable to answer on your own: a moral vacuum, as it were, in your worldview.