Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough?
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3131 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 1 of 284 (516684)
07-26-2009 8:31 PM


Reading my sunday paper this morning, a story peaked my interest:
'Murder by prayer' trial, which also can be found here: Prayer death trial
When is enough enough concerning allowing religious parents to kill their children by not seeking adequate medical care for their children. This is not an isolated incodent and by no means is confined to the developed countries of the United States and the like.
However, by no means was this family incapable of finding adequate medical care to save the life of their daughter.
The aunt of the girl called the police three times on Sunday, the day her neice died, and had said this to the 9-11 dispatcher:
"My sister-in-law is, her daughter's severely, severely sick and she believes her daughter is in a coma.And, she's very religious, so she's refusing to take [Kara] to the hospital, so I was hoping maybe somebody could go over there."
Pretty damning evidence of neglect since she had been sick for nearly a month and had not seen a doctor since she got her shots around her 3rd birthday.
Even when the girl lapsed into a coma by the court account the parents chose not to seek medical care for their daughter.
We are not living in the 19th or 18th century. This is the 21st century and their actions and behavior were inexcusible.
The Unleavened Bread Minstries they attend 'shuns modern medicine in favor of prayer' and 'does not believe in the the medical intervention'.
The father also 'professed to believe God was going to bring Madeline back to life.'
I totally agree with the sentance of second degree murder passed down by the court and find it apalling that the parents still do not see that they murdered their own daughter. It is heart wrenching and sickening. And religious fundamentalists wonder why people are leaving the faith br the droves.
Again I ask, when is enough, enough? Where do we draw the line between religious freedom and tolerance and caring for the welfare and well-being fof our children?
Other children who have died in the name of religious freedom and tolerance:
Healing or homicide? The use of prayer to treat sick children by Shawn Doherty in Capital Times, Wisconsin/August 13, 2008 writes:
1901: The clash of religion, law and child welfare begins in America when two children of J. Luther Pierson die after the New York railroad clerk treats their illnesses with prayer. A benchmark ruling finds Pierson guilty of withholding medical care and creates the legal doctrine that parents, whatever their religious beliefs, have a legal duty to provide adequate medical treatment to their children.
1944: In Prince v. Massachusetts, a case involving the Jehovah's Witnesses, the U.S. Supreme Court rules that the First Amendment's guarantee of religious liberty does not give parents blanket authority: "Parents may be free to become martyrs themselves. But it does not follow that they are free, in identical circumstances, to make martyrs of their children ..."
1967: A Massachusetts court convicts Dorothy Sheriden of involuntary manslaughter after she treats her daughter Lisa's pneumonia with prayer. Sheriden's Christian Scientist Church lobbies successfully to change guidelines for federally funded child protection programs to require states to add religious exemptions to statutes concerning child abuse and neglect. Over the next decades, confusion reigns as more than 40 states -- including Wisconsin -- add religious exemptions to laws while other states repeal them.
1980: Natali Joy Mudd, 4, dies in Indiana from a malignant tumor near her eye. Investigators discover smears of blood along the walls of her home where the little girl, blinded by a tumor as big as a second head, leaned and groped her way around. Outrage over this case and nearly three dozen other preventable deaths among children of Faith Assembly church lead to successful criminal prosecutions of parents and ministers, and reform of Indiana's confusing spiritual healing law.
1982: Jessica Lybarger, 5 weeks old, dies of pneumonia in Colorado after her father insists that "God is the best help." John Lybarger is charged with criminal child abuse. The third effort to convict Lybarger ends in a mistrial, hung up on Colorado's spiritual healing exemption. The loophole is later repealed.
1986: Robyn Twitchell, 2, dies in Massachusetts from a bowel obstruction. Neighbors report hearing screams of pain for days, but the boy's Christian Scientist father, David Twitchell, tells a jury his son's suffering was an illusion. "Pain has no right to exist because God did not authorize it," he says during his trial for manslaughter. The state Supreme Court overturns Twitchell's guilty verdict in part because of the state's spiritual healing exemption, which legislators later repeal.
1987: Wisconsin's child abuse laws are amended to include a spiritual healing exemption.
1988: Ashley King, 12, dies in Phoenix of untreated bone cancer. A detective finds the girl in bed with a tumor the size of a watermelon on her leg. The state hospitalizes Ashley against the wishes of her Christian Scientist parents. The stench of her decaying flesh fills the ward, and she dies.
1991: Measles kills five young members of the Faith Tabernacle church in Philadelphia after parents reject conventional treatment and vaccinations. In an effort to contain a bigger outbreak, health authorities force church members to submit to hundreds of at-home visits. The city's district attorney obtains court orders mandating medical treatment for several sick children and vaccinations for others.
1995: Shannon Nixon, 16, dies in Pennsylvania of diabetes, an illness treatable with insulin. "The devil is fighting me hard," the young Faith Tabernacle member says before vomiting, losing consciousness, and falling into a coma. Shannon's parents were on probation for involuntary manslaughter after her brother, Clayton, died of an untreated ear infection. This time, the Nixons are sent to prison for 2 and a half years.
1997: Dean Michael Heilman, 22 months old, cuts his foot in his Philadelphia area backyard. His parents, members of Faith Tabernacle, anoint the child with oil and pray. After vomiting, bleeding, and crying for 19 hours, Michael stops breathing in his mother's arms. The toddler lost nearly half his blood and was a hemophiliac. The Heilmans are each sentenced to 17 years of probation for involuntary manslaughter and child endangerment, fined $2,000, and ordered to attend parenting classes and provide medical care to their two remaining children.
1998: A study of religion-based medical neglect in the journal Pediatrics documents 172 child fatalities over 20 years among 23 religious denominations in 34 states. Faith Assembly in the Midwest leads, with 64 deaths. The Christian Science Church is second, with 28. The study calls the cases the "tip of the iceberg," since many are never reported. The vast majority of these deaths were avoidable.
1998: Bo Philips, 11, dies in Oregon state from diabetes. A detective finds members of the Followers of Christ praying over the dead child, who is underweight and clad in an adult diaper. A local newspaper investigates his case and the deaths of more than 60 other children buried in the Follower's Cemetery since 1955. More than half died before age 1, at least a third died from treatable illnesses, and none of the deaths resulted in charges being filed against parents. Authorities cite exemptions for spiritual healing as one reason why. Oregon reforms the statutes.
2001: Amanda Bates, 13, dies in Colorado from complications of diabetes, including gangrene in her buttocks and genitals. Other parents in their Church of the First Born had been prosecuted for medical neglect, but Amanda's parents nevertheless treat their daughter with only prayer and are convicted of child abuse.
2003: Terrance "Junior" Cotrell, 4, suffocates in Milwaukee's Faith Assembly church during an exorcism. Minister Ray Hemphill attempts to "release the demons" and lays on top of the boy while Junior's mother prevents the boy from moving. When Hemphill gets off Junior two hours later, the minister is drenched with sweat, and the child is dead. Milwaukee County District Attorney E. Michael McCann charges Hemphill with felony child abuse, fearing the more serious charge of murder won't stick because of spiritual healing protections in Wisconsin state law.
2004: Hemphill is sentenced to 30 months in prison and 7 and a half years of probation. He is also temporarily barred from performing exorcisms. Advocates hope the case spurs Wisconsin legislators to reform the spiritual healing exemption to the state's child abuse statute, following the lead of politicians in Massachusetts, Indiana, Colorado, and Oregon. No Wisconsin legislator takes action.
2008: On March 2, Ava Worthington, 15 months old, dies of pneumonia and a blood infection in Oregon state. The baby's parents, who belong to the Followers of Christ Church, chose treatment with prayer and not antibiotics. Carl and Raylene Worthington await trial for manslaughter and criminal mistreatment.
2008: On March 23, Madeline Kara Neumann, 11, dies of diabetes in her home in Weston, Wis. Parents Dale and Leilani Neumann e-mail a Web site called Unleavened Bread Ministries a desperate request for emergency prayers. When Kara stops breathing, her parents believe she will be resurrected. She is not. The Neumanns are scheduled to be arraigned on Aug. 19 on charges of second-degree reckless homicide. Unleavened Bread Ministries is raising money for their defense. Leilani says on the site that the Heavenly Father will champion their case. Local experts say what might save them instead is the faith healing exemption in Wisconsin's child neglect and abuse statutes.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by Admin, : Correct spelling.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by themasterdebator, posted 07-27-2009 12:13 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied
 Message 19 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-31-2009 11:40 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied
 Message 50 by Omnivorous, posted 08-25-2010 12:58 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3131 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 11 of 284 (516718)
07-27-2009 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by themasterdebator
07-27-2009 12:13 AM


The father was a police officer. He has no excuse in saying that he thought that medical care would be less effective than religious practices such as prayer. Police in many cases are the first to arrive on a scene and render first aid. He knew better.
This is deliberate ignorance in order to get the emotional high of the religious experience. Nothing more. They should be treated the same way we treat junkies, alcoholics and the like for 'unintentionally' killing there children for the sake of there addiction. That is they should be criminally prosecuted. Addictions, even religious ones, do not give one the right to physically or emotionally abuse ones children, much less kill them.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by themasterdebator, posted 07-27-2009 12:13 AM themasterdebator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by onifre, posted 07-28-2009 7:43 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3131 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 282 of 284 (580104)
09-07-2010 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by archaeologist
09-03-2010 5:47 PM


Re: The Quality of Outrage
Looks like you guys have been pretty busy.
Sorry, did not mean to abandon my own thread. I have been pretty busy with work.
I see Archy has jumped right in and made himself home. I'll just add my two cents.
Archy writes:
yet children's rights are limited and are under the care of the parent
Since it seems that you think that parents hold absolute rights over the life and death of their child, I have a few questions:
Do these absolute rights of parents include being able to starve a child to death? Rape a child? Physically abusing a child? Withholding medical care to a child?
Are there limits of what parents can do to their children? When can other people step in and remove a child from a dangerous situation caused by their parent(s), if ever?
This should put it in perspective:
Religion: Oregon orders state custody for the child of Christian faith healers writes:
In Oregon city a judge has ruled that a couple belonging to a faith healing church must surrender their child to the state for failing to provide medical care.
Thursday, Clackamas County Circuit Judge Douglas V. Van Dyk gave the state temporary custody of the child and ordered medical treatment as directed by doctors at Oregon Health & Science University.
The parents, Timothy J. Wyland, 44, and Rebecca J. Wyland, 23, of Beavercreek Oregon, appeared in court without an attorney. The age, condition and identity of the child was not released. The couple are members of the Followers of Christ church.
The 1,200-member Followers of Christ church rejects modern medicine for the treatment of illnesses and disease. Instead, the church teaches members to rely on faith-healing rituals such as the laying on of hands, anointing with oil, prayer and fasting.
The church is no stranger to media attention. Members of the congregation have made a habit of watching their children die rather than seek medical attention.
Last February Jeffrey and Marci Beagley were found guilty for the criminally negligent homicide of their 16-year-old son, Neil. Instead of seeking medical attention for an easily treatable condition, the Beagley's chose prayer, with tragic and fatal consequence for their son.
Four months prior to Neil's death, his young cousin also died at home because her parents, Carl and Raylene Worthington, following the teachings of the church, refused to get her medical attention.
The Followers of Christ church cemetery is filled with dead children who died from treatable medical conditions. The Oregon state medical examiner's office reported that during the past 30 years more than 20 children of church members had died of preventable or curable illnesses.
The state of Oregon, and Judge Van Dyk, should be applauded. While it would have been preferable for the state to intervene earlier, better late than never. History has made clear that this church is hazardous to the health, particularly if you happen to be a child. Children should never be made to suffer for the ignorant religious superstitions of their parents
This is not an attack on the Christian faith. This is a condemnation of extreme and cruel superstition which has led to the needless death of innocent children.
Your idiotic rants about people dying in hospitals is not just ridiculous it borders, no it is absolutely lunacy. Of course people die in hospitals. Why? Because usually the most extreme of diseases and injuries are treated in hospitals. There is a reason life expectancy has risen from the average of 28 during ancient Greece to 45 in the early 20th century and now to 68 today. Modern medicine and science are what caused this, not faith healing.
Here is just one of thousands of examples of the success of modern medicine. Milary Tuberculosis, if left untreated (by modern medicine) results in a fatality rate of nearly 100% However if treated early the fatality rate is reduced to 10%. That is a ten-fold reduction in deaths as a result of early detection and medical treatment of just one disease. There are countless more diseases that have been eradicated or reduced to near insignificance as a result of modern medical research, care and vaccination: small pox killed literally 300-500 million people in the 20th century before vacinnations in the 20th century resulted in its absolute erradication; reduction of Poliomyelitis (polio) from millions of cases to less than 2000 annually; Malaria has been reduced and eliminated in the majority of affected countries; other disease whose fatality rates have been drastically reduced are measles, rubella and many others.
Modern medicine and vaccinations have literally resulted in saving the needless deaths and suffering of billions of men, women and children on this planet.
Your lack of empathy, sympathy or even a shred of compassion is extremely disturbing and I find this repulsive and disgusting. Thank God for modern science and medicine.
Faith healing is NOT denying medical care, it is practicing a different kind of treatment and is not neglect, abuse or whatever, noris it against the law. the state cannot interfere with parental rights.
After over 281 posts you still can not provide a single confirmed and verifiable instance of faith healing. Not one. All you provide are fabricated ancedotes with absolutely zero emperical evidence supporting faith healing.
You care more about the 'rights' of parents to MURDER their children than you do of the CHILD right to live? I really don't understand you? You advocate protecting the rights of unborne children to live (which I also advocate), and then in the same breath advocate a parents right to MURDER their own child. Can you say cognative dissonance? Or should I just say, outright fucking lunacy.
Your worldview reminds me of this little story I remember seeing on the movie "Pursuit of Happiness":
It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.
As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.
Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by archaeologist, posted 09-03-2010 5:47 PM archaeologist has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by menes777, posted 09-28-2010 5:38 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024