Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough?

I think you made a typo there. Because if 1000 people use a hospital, it is rather difficult for 2000 to die there, unless all the staff members die as well, I guess.Also, this fucks up your percentages. In your prayer case, 99.5% of them died, in your hospital case 200% did.

Not in my case they didn't. In fact, I think the bible teaches some of the most terrible morals ever (I mean, stoning disobedient children? Really?) That's not what he said. He means like, when you've got a virus that is cureable, yet you don;t go to a doctor and die. Also, I agree with you on this point. I guess you were in favour of unhooking Terry Schivago as well then? Actually, out of all of the bible, Christ struck me as the most normal, most of his moral teachings were pretty good I thought. Although not everything he did was equally right, in my oppinion. And because of people who don't want their children to be treated for a perfectly curable disease. Of course they do, they were practiced and condoned and even commanded by Christians.No true Scotsman coming in 5, 4, 3.... 2, 1! Yep, there we have it.

Well, my morals tell me I should not enslave someone and when I am displeased with them as my slave beat them to within an inch of their lives. God/your bible says it is perfectly alright for me to do so.Who is right here, me or god/the bible? So? That doesn't mean you shouldn't go to a hospital when you have a perfectly cureable disease. Your chances of getting treated are better when going to a hospital than they are when not going to a hospital. Simple really. You're wrong. I'm not afraid to die. I will of course see a doctor when I get ill. But when my time comes, I will accept it without trying "to fight it all {I} can", in fact, I might help it along a bit. Yet, using your logic, Christians should never go to a doctor, for when they die, they'll go to heaven. Tell me, do you ever go to a doctor? Well, you can be damn sure that someone suffering from diabetes will most likely have survived if only they'd gotten that insulin shot. Yes, I know, they aren't really Scotsmen, are they? So, god doesn't use logic? Guess not. I'm sorry, I only use logic and erason, no woo for me, thank you very much. If you want to use woo, be free to, just don't be so arrogant as to proclaim it the only truth. I know you feel it is, but realize that these kind of truths are "personal", they cannot be extrapolated to everyone else, as your use of the "They aren't Christians" shows.

But I do understand. They're ignorant fuckwits that rather have their own child suffer and die, than go to see a doctor for a perfectly treatable disease, with which the child can easily live a long and full life. Exactly, which is why these people should be thrown in jail for a long time. I don;t have a family. But when I have one, you can be damn sure I will not allow anyone in it to suffer and die needlesly, you see, I actually care about people. Nice quote mine. Anyway, so what, how many people go to a doctor and don't die, that's the point here. [i]Not going to a doctor means you will die, going to a doctor significantly increases your chances of survival. The only one displaying hate here is you. Yes, for a very long time. And under my view, just like yours, they are responsible for their actions. Actually, it is my compassion for the children that influensces it in the right way, unlike your hate filled ramblings.

So, let me get this straight, the reason you don't make reasonable comments, is because you want to be heard, and s you make unreasonable, bat shit craz, hate filledy comments? Weird way of communicating. Try reason fro a change, see what happens. Stop filling your posts with such hate, and see how much more friendly people will get. I never said that, stop making up stuff about me. I value all human lives equally. I agree. No, but they are rather defenceless against them, which is the point here, really. Circular reasoning, mate. Please leave out your rant on how I hate Christianity and therefore cannot see the truth and you don't accept my rules of logic, we get that. Please contribute something other than hate. If they've done wrong, they've done wrong. The women in this case did nothing wrong, the children might not know better, it's all about context, you see. Then he is rather unrealistic and even a bit of a dick. I'd trust him rather more if he didn't judge everyone the same, there are always circumstances that need to be take into account. No, they do matter, and parents don't have that right. Or do you think they should be able to rape their own children, for example? I eman, that's the way they wanna raise them, right? He can certainly try, though I don;t see how he could ever hope to change laws in my country. But the main point is, according to you it is perfectly fine for parents to physically abuse their children, and rape them and what not, because, it is their choice to do so. Am I right here or not. You don't need to rant and rave, just say "yes" or " no".

I do hope you realize this is not about the incompetence of doctors, but rather about them performing euthanasia, yes? As you can see in the very first sentence these people are "terminally ill", meaning that they will die anyway, no matter what the doctor does.

Well, ok, not strictly no. Should it however not be considered a form of euthanasia?

Freedoms come with responsibilities. Freedom is not "do whtever you want", it is "do whatever you want without hurting others". No, they weren't. They denied a fundamental right to the child, and that is against the constitution. Yes I have, and your simple denial does nothing to change that. Again, try reason in your replies, instead of this angry man you seem to want to display. Up to a certain point, yes. As long as it doesn't hurt anybody else, I could frankly care less about what they do. If they want to hit themselves over the head with a baseball bat, I will look at them funny, and perhaps question their sanity, but I will not stop them from doing so. If they want to hit someone else over the head with it, however, I will try to stop that. No, the law is, and strangely, it seems to agree with me. Yes, they are. And part of that responsibility is protecting children from needless harm. I looked up "Octomom" on wiki, and got this article. Is that the person you were talking about? If it is, than on first glance I don't see much wrong with it, as long as the children are safe and healthy, I see no reason to remove them from her.

But that's not what he is suggesting. Do you have evidence for this claim? No need to get angry here and call me things, please, just a link, a book, a quote with source, that''s all I'm asking. Stuff like that can be left out, Archie, we know you think this, no need to repeat it ad nauseum. Depends on what the result is. And the circumstances that the result was reached under. Actually, we don't. And as it is evident that you don't understand us, would you mind taking your own advice and not condemn us? Might I suggest toning down your own emotive responses then? It will work wonders. Are you saying they don't have a right to "life {and} to health"? Please, just a "yes" or "no" will do. And perhaps an explanation of that answer.I'll leave the rest out as it is basically an angry rant. I will ask you to please start answering the questions we ask of you, we can't form a clear picture of you if you don't do that. You see, right now, to me, you seem a very bitter angry man, angry at all the atheists and the evil world they produced.

Well, he did later answer your question in Message 79:

Are you saying we must first be perfect ourselves before we can say that raping children is wrong? But we don't care about the instances where nothing goes wrong, because nothing goes wrong there. This in no way means we don't have to be concerned about the instnaces where it does go wrong. And if they are, they are found out. Also, there are plenty of news reports about instnaces like this, are they all falsified as well? Is the police making these situations up? I don't hate Christ, in fact, I think some of his ideas were pretty nifty. Plenty of scientists are Christians. The only thing we're "forcing" them to do is to not let their children die or be abused. Yes, we are horrible, horrible people for doing that, but we feel it must be done.

I'm sure god didn't say that parents could do whatever they like to thier children. And if he did, he's wrong. But not in a negative way. Look, I'll try to make it perfectly clear here. The only reason I see to take away a child from its parents is when the child is suffering or will suffer when we leave it with its parents. This means that I don;t care how parents raise their child, and what wacky ideas they put into their heads (well, this is not entirely true, I do care what they teach their children, it's just that I can't really do anything about it), but when it comes to harm, I'm sorry, but you just lost your child. A human life is too important to let some idiots squander it. I hope not. By the way, you don;t even know what actions I do or don;t take, therefore you have no way of knowing who gets effected by my actions or not. So, what you are saying is that all cases of child abuse are just made up, everyone involved in such a case is lying abot it. and no one has said that they are. I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. Since you don' t get to determine who is or is not a Christian (for instance, I could say you aren't one, and then what?), I'm gnna take their word for it. I don't, but the government sure has. And luckily they do.

Uhm, the only way to get medical care is by going to a doctor.

Faith healing is not medical care. It's still not medical care. It's perhaps "spiritual" care, but medical, it is not.

I agree. Faith healing that leads to the death of the child is worse than rape. So? Parents do not have the right to let their children die of neglect. But the state has. Again, parents do not have the right to let their child die of neglect. Again, I agree. Perhaps you can answer this question: Can parents do whatever they like with their child? Of course there is. He has interactered with a few persons I know. Neither can you.