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Author
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Topic: Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough?
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.6
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you do not get to say what is or isn't right nor what is or isn't endangering a child. Ummm, yeah we do. If a mother locks her kid in the car for hours in the middle of the summer we get to take that child away until she shows that she is capable of correctly raising that child. We do get to take children out of homes where they are neglected, and we get to prosecute parents for endangering the lives of their children. It's the law.
taking a child to a hospital is endangering them because of the incompetant care that takes place within those walls. Prayer is incompetent health care.
this business of taking sick people to a hospital instead of praying is inane since it has been demonstrated to NOT WORK Would you please cite this study?
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.5
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Suffer, little children
(Y)ou really got to get off this women's thinking mode and see the reality. Children are not immune to things that take place in adult lives. sin is sin and God judges them all the same. Hi, archaeologist. Does this include newborn infants? Christ said, "Suffer the little children..."--not "Suffer, little children." Society can interfere with the way you mistreat your dog, let alone your kids.
Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!-Gogol Bordello
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: 11-12-2002
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Christ did not call any part of the OT a myth, fairy tale and He believed and taught the creative act. I missed the parts where he told folks that claim to be his followers to spew venom like a spitting cobra at people that disagree with them, Arch. Can you find that verse for me, since you appear to live by it?
"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.5
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Jesus Christ, Sex Therapist?
Christ...believed and taught the creative act. you are far from anything christian. So God sent you here to pre-sort Christians and non-Christians? Or do you just think She's not up to the job? Christ said he brought a New Covenant. You seem to be a classic Old Testament Christian, too fond of hate and killing to embrace a loving Christ.
Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!-Gogol Bordello
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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To ensure doctors are acting in accordance with their patients' wishes ... There seems to be nothing in what you've quoted to suggest that they weren't ...
... Seale wrote that "nonreligious doctors should confess their predilections to their patients." And religious doctors. I don't want some religious nut torturing me to appease his imaginary God. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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no i don't. i just have to speak the truth. scientific studies are so limited and manipulated that they cannot be counted on. What truth a bunch of stories written years after the fact by who knows whom?
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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you really shouldn't criticize nor condemn what you really do not understand. when i was 18 one of my best friends went to the hospital with a curable disease and died. Did you pray for your friend? (I might add that to a theist all diseases, including actual death, are curable by an omnipotent God if he so chooses, so every single time a person who is prayed for dies, they have died of a curable disease.)
under your logic the parents would be considered irresponisible and should go to jail. No --- like all the other sane people participating on this thread, he believes that parents are obliged to try to keep their children alive, not to succeed. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 378 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: 08-04-2010
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Message 68 of 284 (577024)
08-26-2010 10:17 PM
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Hey you guys, Archie may be on to something. "September 6, 2007More than half of the over 65,000 people who died in Western Canada in 2003—2004 died in a hospital, according to a new report by the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). In-hospital deaths were more common in Manitoba (68%) and Alberta (65%) than in British Columbia (52%) or Saskatchewan (51%)" http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=media_... I better put down my vitamins and dust off my bible.
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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archaeologist writes: you really shouldn't criticize nor condemn what you really do not understand.
But I do understand. They're ignorant fuckwits that rather have their own child suffer and die, than go to see a doctor for a perfectly treatable disease, with which the child can easily live a long and full life.
plus it is NOT your call on what other parents do withtheir families, they are responsible not you.
Exactly, which is why these people should be thrown in jail for a long time.
you are responsible for raising your family in the correct way which, judging by your posts, you have failed to do as well.
I don;t have a family. But when I have one, you can be damn sure I will not allow anyone in it to suffer and die needlesly, you see, I actually care about people.
really? when i was 18 one of my best friends went to the hospital with a curable disease and died.
Nice quote mine. Anyway, so what, how many people go to a doctor and don't die, that's the point here. [i]Not going to a doctor means you will die, going to a doctor significantly increases your chances of survival.
you distort the reality because you hate Christ and christianity.
The only one displaying hate here is you.
under your logic the parents would be considered irresponisible and should go to jail.
Yes, for a very long time. And under my view, just like yours, they are responsible for their actions.
your hatred influences your thinking in the wrong way.
Actually, it is my compassion for the children that influensces it in the right way, unlike your hate filled ramblings.
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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archaeologist writes: you all need to keep in mind that it is your attitude that keeps me from sayng more. i say the minimal because i know you will reject any reasonable comment i make.
So, let me get this straight, the reason you don't make reasonable comments, is because you want to be heard, and s you make unreasonable, bat shit craz, hate filledy comments? Weird way of communicating. Try reason fro a change, see what happens. Stop filling your posts with such hate, and see how much more friendly people will get.
your emotionalism is unreliable as you place a greater value on children than you do any other human life and that is wrong.
I never said that, stop making up stuff about me. I value all human lives equally.
childrens' lives are NOT greater nor ore important than a father's or a mother's or even a single person's.
I agree.
so you really got to get off this women's thinking mode and see the reality. Children are not immune to things that take place in adult lives.
No, but they are rather defenceless against them, which is the point here, really.
if the children were as nnocent as you think, then they would not have been destroyed in the flood.
Circular reasoning, mate. Please leave out your rant on how I hate Christianity and therefore cannot see the truth and you don't accept my rules of logic, we get that. Please contribute something other than hate.
learn that lesson well, God does not make exceptions for ladies who lower their blouses, hike their skirts or bats their eyes and he does not give free passes to children either.
If they've done wrong, they've done wrong. The women in this case did nothing wrong, the children might not know better, it's all about context, you see.
He judges all the same and uses the same criteria for all.
Then he is rather unrealistic and even a bit of a dick.
if He didn't then then He would not be God, and could not be trusted.
I'd trust him rather more if he didn't judge everyone the same, there are always circumstances that need to be take into account.
which means that your standards do not matter and parents are given th eright to raise their families as they see fit.
No, they do matter, and parents don't have that right. Or do you think they should be able to rape their own children, for example? I eman, that's the way they wanna raise them, right?
i highly doubt you would want an american evangelical forcing you to raise your kids their way--so do not do it to them.
He can certainly try, though I don;t see how he could ever hope to change laws in my country. But the main point is, according to you it is perfectly fine for parents to physically abuse their children, and rape them and what not, because, it is their choice to do so. Am I right here or not. You don't need to rant and rave, just say "yes" or " no".
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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archaeologist writes: JUST saw this article about a british study, you may find it interesting: http://news.yahoo.com/...me/eu_med_britain_doctors_and_death
LONDON — Doctors who are atheist or agnostic are twice as likely to make decisions that could end the lives of their terminally ill patients, compared to doctors who are very religious, according to a new study in Britain. Dr. Clive Seale, a professor at Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry, conducted a random mail survey of more than 3,700 doctors across Britain, of whom 2,923 reported on how they took care of their last terminal patient. Many of the doctors surveyed were neurologists, doctors specializing in the care of the elderly, and palliative care, though other specialists like family doctors, were also included. Doctors who described themselves as "extremely" or "very nonreligious" were nearly twice as likely to report having made decisions like providing continuous deep sedation, which could accelerate a patient's death. To ensure doctors are acting in accordance with their patients' wishes, Seale wrote that "nonreligious doctors should confess their predilections to their patients."
I do hope you realize this is not about the incompetence of doctors, but rather about them performing euthanasia, yes? As you can see in the very first sentence these people are "terminally ill", meaning that they will die anyway, no matter what the doctor does.
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archaeologist
Inactive Member
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Message 72 of 284 (577074)
08-27-2010 4:18 AM
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yeah we do no you don't but law enforcement may but then that law is a bit unjust and doesn't cover the issue properly. then again, atheists and evolutionists do not care as they will take away children from religious people at the drop of a hat and justify it with the weakest of excuses. you all do not know how to implement the law properly nor are you all just. i can mention the recent texas debacle, and further back the wennatchee witchhunt.
Does this include newborn infants? you are ignored, i do not respond to people like you who only want to do personal attacks.
(I might add that to a theist all diseases, including actual death, are curable by an omnipotent God if he so chooses, so every single time a person who is prayed for dies, they have died of a curable disease.) didn't know abiout it till after the fact. God has free choice concernign who He will or won't heal but then you do not like that either as it takes away your control.
like all the other sane people participating on this thread, he believes that parents are obliged to try to keep their children alive, and that is exactly what those parents did, and do, when they prayed, pray, for their children. they went to the ultimate healer, who has power over life and death,because that is where their faith lead them just like your faith in hospitals leads you to human dioctors who have no control or power over life and death. you all are just afraid that He will not answer your prayers and that you will lose out BUT He does fromtime to time. Nicjki Cruz prayed about the sex of a baby, when the prayer was answered he converted. the problem with you all is, you woul dhave no intention of converting andyou want to implement your ways on those who do not follow them. which is a big complaint by atheists against christians.
But I do understand. They're ignorant fuckwits that rather have their own child suffer and die, than go to see a doctor for a perfectly treatable disease, with which the child can easily live a long and full life. no you don't. you want to deprive people of their freedoms, the same ones you demand that you get to enjoy. under the constitution they were free to practice their religion and they did. you have no argument and no reason to be upset. but atheists nd other unbelievers just do not get it. if you want freedom to live your sinful lives, then you cannot impose that life and its beliefs upon those who reject it for they have the freedom to live their lives with their beliefs.
it is my compassion for the children that influensces it in the right way, unlike your hate filled ramblings your compassion is misguided and your ideas, ideals, or beliefs are not supreme and it is not you who gets to say who can or can't be a parent nor how they should parent. God has given that right to the REAL PARENTS and they are responsbile. grow up people, you interfere where you do not belong and ruin more lives than you think you help. you probably would remove all of the children from octomom on the illegal, andunjustifiable excuse that you do not like her or how she did it. sorry but you all fail.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 73 of 284 (577076)
08-27-2010 4:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 71 by Huntard
08-27-2010 1:33 AM
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I do hope you realize this is not about the incompetence of doctors, but rather about them performing euthanasia, yes? No, it's not even about that.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by Huntard, posted 08-27-2010 1:33 AM | | Huntard has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 74 by Huntard, posted 08-27-2010 4:34 AM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Dr Adequate writes: No, it's not even about that.
Well, ok, not strictly no. Should it however not be considered a form of euthanasia?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-27-2010 4:29 AM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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no you don't but law enforcement may but then that law is a bit unjust and doesn't cover the issue properly. then again, atheists and evolutionists do not care as they will take away children from religious people at the drop of a hat and justify it with the weakest of excuses. Such as keeping the child from dying of neglect.
no you don't. you want to deprive people of their freedoms, the same ones you demand that you get to enjoy I don't demand to let children die of neglect, nor would I enjoy doing so. But then, I'm not a Christian. Our ideas of what is enjoyable probably differ.
your compassion is misguided and your ideas, ideals, or beliefs are not supreme and it is not you who gets to say who can or can't be a parent nor how they should parent. God has given that right to the REAL PARENTS and they are responsbile. I notice that you still haven't answered my question. For the fourth time of asking, does this principle you've enunciated also apply to parents who sexually abuse their children? Yes or no?
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