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Author | Topic: What do believers believe heaven or hell are like? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Exactly.
quote: Well, if we have the ability to make an objective test, then it does matter. We don't have that ability with individual, personal, subjective assesments such as you are suggesting are the only method we can use to determine the "real" religious experiences from the delusions. So, we are back to square one. We don't know.
quote: So, if a depressed person believes that they are worthless, and interprets everything that happens to them and everything that anyone says to them as consistent with their deeply-held belief, does that mean they are, indeed, worthless?
quote: Why?
The 9/11 bombers believed that they were also doing God's will. quote: Hold on, let's just remember what you said. You said:
quote: You seemed to be implying that people's personal religious experiences have little no no effect upon others. Clearly, that is not true at all, which is why I brought up Bush and the 9/11 hijackers. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 06-23-2005 09:12 AM
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You seemed to be implying that people's personal religious experiences have little no no effect upon others. No, I wasn't going that far with that statement. I was thinking more in the context of a conversation, with emphasis on the claim. I don't think claiming to have a personal religious experience(PRE) has much affect, it is what you do about that experience, what actions you take. But, I wouldn't blame a PRE for the actions that sometakes outside of that experience. I doubt the 9/11 terrorist were having a PRE while they were hijacking the airplane. I'm out of time. Will continue later. What about optical illusions and false memories?
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enlightme70 Junior Member (Idle past 6739 days) Posts: 1 Joined: |
Mr. Mohammad sir,
I respectfully beg to differ on your interpretation of hell and concept of the fate of most women. I realize the Quran says many things in regards to our fallbacks but these were old unequipped opinions of a man who had no idea what the world would prosper to by now. The scriptures have a pattern and going by other history comparible to date it is obvious women were held back in all walks of society so much that no man could possibly no the depths of our capacity. These are ideas suited to dominate...the hell idea was to do exactly what it does...scare the dickens out of the female race so we don't run away from ugly old me that we don't want to have sex with.
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iano Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
schraf writes: I have been told by believers about some vague descriptions of Heaven and Hell, and that they are working very, very hard to get into one and to stay out of the other. That's what you get as soon as you latch onto a works based salvation/damnation. There are an awful lot of commandments to keep (or try to keep for the tryers The other view is that it is by grace you are saved. That Goddoesit. If so: - Hell is not hard to stay out of. It is impossible. All are born with "Destination Hell" stamped on their foreheads. It's the default position in other words - Heaven is 'very easy' and 'very hard' to get into. Very easy in that its God who gets you in. It only takes a second of your time (or less). Very hard in that he had to pay a hefy sum to allow it to happen. His son
I am curious what conceptions of heaven and hell believers have, and what are the rationales they use to justify their idea of what heaven and hell are like. A beginning can be made if one latches onto a single idea. There will be no sin in heaven. Start imagining life if no one sinned and you start to get an idea of what it will be like (some will shout "Booorrrrrinnnnngg") Worth noting that a result of sin is sickness, disease, pain, worry, fear etc. No sin then none of these things either. Hell? I prefer not to think about it. Put it this way: I wouldn't be a bleeding heart by any stretch of the imagination. Not the most compassionate person on the planet either. But the fact that I'm not going there myself doesn't make it any less stomach churning when I allow myself to consider what I know of what it will be like. The bible tells us "no eye has seen and no mind has conceived... what God has prepared for those who love him" That same could be applied to those that don't
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: So if you wanted to relax and not be challenged for a week or so, would they boot you out of Heaven?
My idea of heaven is a college with only the greatest teachers. Every day you will learn something new and will be challenged. You will never learn it all but get glimpses of what you will learn tomorrow. Hell would be just the opposite, a universe filled with WWF, reality tv, the Apprentice, Lite Beer and Ball Park Franks. It would be comfortable and non-threatening, secure yet unrelenting. So Hell would be non-threatening??? Would Heaven thus be threatening??
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Why would I not want to be challenged?
Heaven will be both threatening and challenging I hope.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Why would I not want to be challenged? Heaven will be both threatening and challenging I hope. So i wont have an option of laying about on a cloud watching reruns of Seinfeld, and 2 and a half men? Cmmon its hevan they should give me an option to watch 2 and a half men season 9 with Charlie sheen instead of Aston Kutcher Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Frako writes: I suppose it all depends what we assume Heaven is supposed to be like. So i wont have an option of laying about on a cloud watching reruns of Seinfeld, and 2 and a half men? Will humans do and have exactly what their little heart desires? Is heaven kinda like winning the lottery and getting laid all in one?? Is heaven about us or about God? Or both?
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Is heaven about us or about God? Or both? Well from what i gathered from the bible if you are a good boy and worship god do what he commands and dont do what he forbids after you die you get the grand prize of worshiping your god for eternity singing his praises telling him how awesome he is and the like. And if your not a good boy you go to hell where you burn and get tortured and of course you dont get the privilege of worshiping your god praising him and telling him how awesome he is. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Frako, I somehow imagine your life and world view summed up in this song!
Edited by Phat, : fixed
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
BREAKING.
There is no hell, satan or devil. There is only those who do hellish, satanic and devilish deeds in their actions. The rule is:Those who lie make sure their proof is far away. Proof: study the history of those who blackmail you.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
You're David Mabus' protege, aren't you?
"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
hehe kind of its close but this comes closer
I am at home in such hillseven the dog sometimes rides on its ass Tink how hard it is to grow stuff You better not be a little saltedIf i where drunk many times i would already be buried I have a fox that brings me my postCards are played by a black kos (bird) The wheelbarrow is my only ride The hawk has no place to turnWhen he lands to get the chicken But why whine its good enough to be alive We hillbillies are good peoplehojlarija ri Whoever dosent think like we do has something happen to him fast .... Last day i went to the wallyFor shuggar, pepper, oil and salt And immediately it started A long haired young man came I dont know if he was a sister or a brother You know he tried to beat me up I barely escaped i said to him Pepy your good now I hurry back where the smart people are In the valley everyone is madIn the hills we live differently here we all know each other We hillbillies are good peoplehojlarija ri Whoever dosent think like we do has something happen to him fast .... I killed a bullAnd was making nops The IRS came and said hops Your shitting me all whiteout papers I told them the destilary is still burning from last yearThe bull is allso hanging a year dont you remember you gave me the papers The young inspector lookt at me angrysaid he dosent like people like me i should stop shitting like this ...... ... .. .. combined with this songOd Franca Franekina god (god as in the day your name is on the calendar) Back in the day the people where better looking and fatterThey liked to drink and eat something good Not today when men are worse then mice someone thinks he looks so fine, only if he is skinny as a pin. Back in the day it wasent like this,they thought you where sick, if you had less then a hunderd (kilos) . A real man had to have at least 120 kilo, and he could with no effort eat half a pig you know horizontally cut If i think of Franca Franekinahow much we ate, how much wine we drank when i think about it someone came in to my house he hit me on the shoulder and said "today is my god I said "listen to me cerfully Franc Franekin,today he is watching you, if you dont give out a quarter" "A quarter what are you talking about you cunt We two are going in the cellar to empty a barrel or 2 "I told frans i dont mind,"I made 2 sandwitches for the road To each a loaf of bread, mortatella, cheese enough so our stomach gives us peace on the road If you go down the village to the left and then straightin 15 minutes you arive at Franekinovih, Franc opened the cellar and called his wife to make something light to eat When i entered the cellar, i fell in to a trance,as if a regiment of soldiers dressed up for a parade the barrels stood in line, bel pinot, zelen, barbera, kabernet, merlot.(typs of wine) And what was tied to the celling,ham, baco , panceta and in the middle salami, and sausages in rows all redy for winter like grapes it hung all down Firs work we drank the pinelodown the throat those 2 paninka with mortadela, and then we slowly went from barrel to barrel we opened up the pipe and tried them one by one Garganja, ka ti stori voju za okulat,zelen, prekrasen, ka ma tak duh ku mukat, pinot, ka se ti v ustah razcveti takuo ko roa, merlot, ka ti elodk poboa, an taku naprej, tako pores. (hard to translate describes the taste of the various wines) I said franc lets play a little violini ment cut some prut it would be right with this wine (prut says ham but i dout uncle google is right) You dont have to ask one two three the prut was on the cutting table being cut Soon all that was left was a boneso not to fall weak we each attacked a salami and all the time trying out the barrels We ate a few lofes of sirkov bread with the meatbarbera made sure our throtes where not dry and then his wife brought down a big bowl of olce with lomberjem. ( a gula typ of thing) To everyone a bit of jote, in stepped a pig,in each portion a few sausages where swimming and on the side some fried prut, and polenta the bowls where so full they where screaming "you want a noter piece, what will you drink with that withe or black""just pour all is good" "now that we finished lets move on" when we finished a new prut was on the tableThe wife went up to bake a frajtca (meat) I told him" stop a little it was enough " he said" be quiet drink and eat" There was no choice but to obeyTill the morning to drink and eat When the dawn came we also sang so that windows cracked And then everyone had breakfast Back in the day people where bigger and more butifulthey liked to eat and liked to drink and loved oneanother if a man eats poorly he gets bad blood that man is always in a bad mood and always angry ( if you think the song is exaggerating you would be wrong stuff like this still happens) And mixed with a bit of this song Summer is coming back to us,and again i got a recourse, society is paying for my holidays just one lousy million bucks. I have never squandered my money on drinking,I always put it in a sock, when it will empty out, I will run away to the place only I know. It is easy to live there with my salary,I will rea,lly go there some day, I will not return back home,not even in my dreams, although I will send postcards to you all. Republica Palma de Cocco,this is a place for nice people, the bottom of the bottles is very deep there, there is no end of partying. Creoles are dancing samba,and such negro women, who have their buttock as big as two heelbarrows, everyone of them is worth a sin. If you spend all night boozing they are not mad at you,and you do not have to pay back dues to the waiters, neither cops are sober there, there is no prisons and fights. In the Republic Palma de Cocco,there is party for everyone, even the president Loco Loco doesn not know the favouritism. You can drink there as much as you can,and do whaterevr you want, you can say whatever you want and nobody goes into prison because of this. When one night i will fall in a ditchDrunk of rum like a dragon The policeman will gently and respectfully cover me with his own shirt. Do not touch my head if i have temperature,and do not ask what is wrong with me, do not think it got me, and i am not going childish. I will be laughing a lot,when these days, from the Republic of Palma de Cocco, you will get my postcards. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
So to sum up what heaven may be like....
" be quiet drink and eat".... "We hillbillies are good people...." (Whoever doesn't think like we do has something happen to him fast ) You can drink there as much as you can,and do whatever you want, you can say whatever you want and nobody goes into prison because of this. I think I understand. We Americans were always used to doing what we wanted...shaping foreign governments, attacking South American dictators that tried to raise the price of coffee or sugar...you know? I guess neither one of our cultures ever listened to God...if He in fact ever tried to tell us anything. You always suspected He was out for your money, and we always thought He was giving us ours. I guess that...quite honestly...I expect life to be better with God than without Him. Frako, do you ever think our cultures would get along? (Or would you guys beat us up? ) Edited by Phat, : spelling
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Iano writes: Heaven is 'very easy' and 'very hard' to get into. Very easy in that its God who gets you in. It only takes a second of your time (or less). Very hard in that he had to pay a hefy sum to allow it to happen. His son.. For some reason, I dont feel that God Himself sacrificed all that much. Its like a dictator who has the election rigged. Even if His Son died, He could always bring him back.
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