|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Importance of Original Sin | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: ...my point is that i cant retire on just promises of food quote: So why is your system better than theirs?And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You're an upstart arrogant modern unbeliever against some huge number of believers over the millennia, who cares how many since there are a lot more than just you and those who agree with you.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It isn't just me. It's pretty much everybody in this thread except you. It's everybody who can read. It's everybody who doesn't have an axe to grind. You're an upstart arrogant modern unbeliever against some huge number of believers over the millennia, who cares how many since there are a lot more than just you and those who agree with you. If you had an argument, you could present it instead of falling back on fallacy.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You are lying. I've made the argument many times over.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Every "argument" you've made has been soundly refuted. Leaving out things like, "and to keep back part of the price of the land," is not a valid argument. Legality is not a valid argument. Popularity is not a valid argument. I've made the argument many times over.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Because we no longer have Apostles...people we can trust---to hand it over to. There is no comparable system today that is anywhere near as integral as the one described in Acts. So why is your system better than theirs? I can accept your argument that we are charged to give 100% in life. I can even agree with your argument that the specific group of believers mentioned in the Book Of Acts did, in fact, have a group consensus on giving 100%. What I am telling you and have told you before is that there is no group with trusted leaders with which I feel comfortable being in that same type of commitment with. On an individual level, I cannot argue with you. The lack of a modern group of people like the Believers in Acts makes the case for what Faith is frustratingly trying to explain. Finally, there is no comparable church that I know of today.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nothing was left out. Ananias died on hearing the specific words about lying to the Holy Spirit. THAT'S WHAT THE TEXT SAYS.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
|
There is other scripture that says we must work to take care of ourselves and our families, so it is simply not possible that we are charged with giving 100%. Ringo is as usual defending his own ridiculous misreading of the Bible.
The best model I've heard of was John Wesley's policy of giving away whatever was in excess of what he needed to live on. He calculated his needs, quite conservatively I'm sure, and gave away anything he received that was more than that. People who have been asked to give all were especially chosen for some particular mission, such as a Hudson Taylor who became a missionary to China. During the years that led up to that he helped poor people in his area. In one case he had a coin left for his own meal and felt the Holy Spirit telling him to give it to the poor family instead. He did and it became a lesson to him in how the Lord provides for those who trust Him. But we are not all called to that degree of sellf-sacrifice. You have to be dedicated way beyond the norm. Taylor spent hours on his knees in prayer, and then spent the rest of his life in China. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Which believers, the ones you agree with? There are lots of believers I don't agree with on some things but are nevertheless believers and would agree with me about this scripture..
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Faith writes: A genuine believer is someone who is born again and lives for Christ. So that would be anybody that believes what you believe? It would be anybody who puts all trust in Christ for salvation which can vary from my own specific beliefs.
There is no doubt what Pascal meant and it is not what you interpreted it to mean. He thinks it very wise of God to inspire the Bible in such a way as to enlighten believers but mislead unbelievers. Yes that's what he means. But the conclusion from that is that god can only communicate with those that already believe in him. What use is that? If we don't believe we do not have the spiritual means for communicating with God. There are some basics, like you desire to know God, like you respect God's offer of salvation, like you are willing to repent and do things God's way. Those who have none of that should also have no ability to understand the Bible correctly.
His stated intention was to save the world, not just a lucky few. His stated intention was that He wanted everyone to repent and believe but we know there are lots of people who won't do that. You for instance.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
They were handing their possessions over to God. Don't you trust God? You saw what happened to Ananias and Sapphira when they were untrustworthy. What do you think would happen to the trustees if they were untrustworthy?
Because we no longer have Apostles...people we can trust---to hand it over to. Phat writes:
The trustworthiness of the system has nothing to do with whether or not you should obey God.
There is no comparable system today that is anywhere near as integral as the one described in Acts. Phat writes:
And I'm telling you that that copout doesn't fly.
What I am telling you and have told you before is that there is no group with trusted leaders with which I feel comfortable being in that same type of commitment with. Phat writes:
No it doesn't. It's an excuse to hold back. And holding back makes you a goat. The lack of a modern group of people like the Believers in Acts makes the case for what Faith is frustratingly trying to explain. And Faith is not trying to "explain" anything. She's denying what the Bible says. There's no "explanation" that excuses that.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You're leaving it out again.
Nothing was left out. Ananias died on hearing the specific words about lying to the Holy Spirit.quote:You're leaving out, "and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself." That's what the text says. Those are the specific words that Ananias heard. That's what you're leaving out. And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Act 5:4-5 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. As I said, he heard the words about lying to God and died. No mention of holding back money as the cause of his death. It's about lying to God, period. Yes, AGAIN, they were morally wrong to hold back part of the money but they were legally in the right to do so as the statement about it beig in their control shows. God punished them for lying to Him about it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
As I said, he heard the words about lying to God and keeping back part of the price of the land and he died. You're leaving out verse 3.
As I said, he heard the words about lying to God and died. Faith writes:
It was definitely mentioned, right there in the same speech.
No mention of holding back money as the cause of his death. Faith writes:
It's about lying to God and keeping back part of the price of the land. You don't get to write periods into the Bible.
It's about lying to God, period. Faith writes:
AGAIN, the legality is irrelevant. It was the moral wrong that they were punished for.
Yes, AGAIN, they were morally wrong to hold back part of the money but they were legally in the right to do so as the statement about it beig in their control shows. Faith writes:
God punished them for lying to Him and keeping back part of the price of the land, as the text plainly says. God punished them for lying to Him about it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, you aren't going to give an inch and neither am I. I represent the history of Christian thought on this one though and you represent nothing but your own misreading of the text.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024