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Author Topic:   Logical Proof of Existence of a Divine Creator, Why Atheism is Not Logically Sound
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 106 of 175 (487957)
11-06-2008 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by onifre
11-06-2008 6:57 PM


onifre

You are correct I should have said except humans but remember that fundamentals do not acknowledge our animal side.

As to other animals, God does not quarrel with meat.

A select few? Does Noah ring a bell.
Millions dead including innocent children and babies.
God kept a select few to fuck things up again and drowned the rest.
A poor farmer indeed to sow so many and reap so few.

Should man judge God? Yes.
Who else can?


Thank God it does not end here or all of us would be disappointed at death.

How do you know that?

I had the pleasure and pain of the one contact with God. He is a cosmic conscience.

No miracles. Just the WORD.

I do not judge belief. I only judge Gods. There are many of each.

We all follow a God, be Him from a religion or a political system. We all believe in one of these Gods.
They should all be judged.
How else are we to know why we follow any one of them?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by onifre, posted 11-06-2008 6:57 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 11:00 AM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 134 by Blue Jay, posted 11-08-2008 3:39 PM Greatest I am has responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 2883 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 107 of 175 (487970)
11-07-2008 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Greatest I am
11-06-2008 9:30 PM


Who else can judge God other than men?

Judge God based on what laws?

Just because by human standards the God fo the Hebrew Bible is a bloodthirsty evil tyrant, this doesn't mean that He actually is.

How do you know that slaughtering humans isn't a good thing in the divine courts?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Greatest I am, posted 11-06-2008 9:30 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by rueh, posted 11-07-2008 7:25 AM Brian has not yet responded
 Message 109 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 9:35 AM Brian has not yet responded

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 1585 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 108 of 175 (487975)
11-07-2008 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Brian
11-07-2008 4:03 AM


God prevents over population
How do you know that slaughtering humans isn't a good thing in the divine courts?
Who knows just how over populated our planet would be right now, if we didn't get a good old rathfull ass kicking here and there. :laugh:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Brian, posted 11-07-2008 4:03 AM Brian has not yet responded

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 109 of 175 (487987)
11-07-2008 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Brian
11-07-2008 4:03 AM


Judge God based on what laws?

Just because by human standards the God fo the Hebrew Bible is a bloodthirsty evil tyrant, this doesn't mean that He actually is.

How do you know that slaughtering humans isn't a good thing in the divine courts?

The only laws we have are the laws of man.
Nothing has ever been written or spoken that was not written or spoken by man.

If He looks like a tyrant then what else can we call Him. A loving tyrant? A tyrant that does not really want to kill us but He loves us and that is why He kills us.

If your divine court says that it is OK to use genocide on humans then you can shove your divine court up God's divine ass.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Brian, posted 11-07-2008 4:03 AM Brian has not yet responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 875 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 110 of 175 (488001)
11-07-2008 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Greatest I am
11-06-2008 9:44 PM


As to other animals, God does not quarrel with meat.

Again, you are making assertions. How do you know that he does not quarrel with 'meat'?

A select few? Does Noah ring a bell.

No.

Millions dead including innocent children and babies.
God kept a select few to fuck things up again and drowned the rest.
A poor farmer indeed to sow so many and reap so few.

Oh, that Noah. Wait are you reading the Bible literally or not? Pick a side man.

Should man judge God? Yes.
Who else can?

Man can judge a stroy to be ridiculous, boring, stupid, nonsensical etc, but, to judge God you would need to know for certain that God exists, and is the type of entity that can be judged. Since there is no way of knowing that, your statement is nonsensical. See, I can judge you though. ;)

I had the pleasure and pain of the one contact with God. He is a cosmic conscience.

So, you had a spiritual experience and you created your own version of God? You are no better than the people who wrote the Bible that you claim were wrong in what they wrote. They had a spiritual experience and wrote about it, you had one too and are writing about it here, what makes you any better? Why should your subjective experience be worth more than someone elses?

I do not judge belief. I only judge Gods. There are many of each.

Thats not what I said, and you are judging beliefs in God. You claim superiority in your belief and in your God. This is religious arrogance, the same that is shown by the very fundamentalist that you ridicule so much. You just do it at a more toned down level. But you are showing arrogance in your belief in God.


"All great truths begin as blasphemies"

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks

"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Greatest I am, posted 11-06-2008 9:44 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 1:40 PM onifre has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 111 of 175 (488051)
11-07-2008 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by onifre
11-07-2008 11:00 AM


So, you had a spiritual experience and you created your own version of God? You are no better than the people who wrote the Bible that you claim were wrong in what they wrote. They had a spiritual experience and wrote about it, you had one too and are writing about it here, what makes you any better? Why should your subjective experience be worth more than someone elses?

"I do not judge belief. I only judge Gods. There are many of each.

Thats not what I said, and you are judging beliefs in God. You claim superiority in your belief and in your God. This is religious arrogance, the same that is shown by the very fundamentalist that you ridicule so much. You just do it at a more toned down level. But you are showing arrogance in your belief in God."

I judged your other comments to not be worthy of thought.

Firstly, I cannot judge anyone's beliefs. Ii cannot tell the contexts of their belief. I accept that they have a belief.

There is nothing wrong with well placed arrogance. Mine is not based on a talking snake so I resent the association.

We then look at the issue and then the fight starts.

My God is not superior to the miracle making God. He is just real.

I am not better than the writers of scripture, they, like all of us today do the best with what we have. I just have the update.

My experience in speaking to God is no better than anyone else's. There are just very few of us who have.

I have. Have you? Who then should teach who?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 11:00 AM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 1:53 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 120 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 6:07 PM Greatest I am has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3241
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 112 of 175 (488054)
11-07-2008 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Greatest I am
11-07-2008 1:40 PM


Just another baseless claim
Greatest I am writes:

My God is not superior to the miracle making God. He is just real.

I think you mean to say that you think He is real.

You cannot claim that He actually is difinitively real, unless you can show that He is real.

Unless you actually have something to show, other than your imagination?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 1:40 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 2:05 PM Stile has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 113 of 175 (488057)
11-07-2008 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Stile
11-07-2008 1:53 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
That just put me as another of many voices.

There is no proof of God that can be shown. Non corporeal remember.
No faith gives God substance.

While my wife lives I have a witness to telepathy and while I live I will say that I made contact with the mind of God one time.

That is all I need.

If others need more, they will not find it in me.

God, my God that is, does not do miracles. Just words as rendered through me.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 1:53 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 2:16 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 136 by Brian, posted 11-08-2008 4:00 PM Greatest I am has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3241
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 114 of 175 (488062)
11-07-2008 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Greatest I am
11-07-2008 2:05 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
Greatest I am writes:

While my wife lives I have a witness to telepathy and while I live I will say that I made contact with the mind of God one time.

Again, you think you made contact with the mind of God. Without being able to show such, you cannot difinitively say that it is correct. Or are you beyond making mistakes? A perfect human perhaps?

That is all I need.

Then why bother trying to convince others by posting such drivel? If that's all you need, be happy and keep it to yourself. It seems to me that you require outside acknowledgement, otherwise you wouldn't find it necessary to proclaim your unsupported assertions.

If others need more, they will not find it in me.

Of course they won't. Because it is no different from anything else you have thoughts about. How could others possible get more support for something that only exists within your imgaination?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 2:05 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 2:43 PM Stile has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 115 of 175 (488075)
11-07-2008 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Stile
11-07-2008 2:16 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
You ask the impossible.

Firstly, is there any proof that you would accept. There is none so there is nothing I can tell you for an answer. No religion has the proof that you seek. If so name it.

Secondly, I do not claim perfection except in the sense that perfection is always in flux or in evolution. We are all perfect at any given moment but the next moment can and does make us better. Like in a more perfect union as the US constitution says.
I include you in this definition of perfection.

What other than a miracle would you believe?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 2:16 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 2:53 PM Greatest I am has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3241
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 116 of 175 (488079)
11-07-2008 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Greatest I am
11-07-2008 2:43 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
Greatest I am writes:

What other than a miracle would you believe?

I likely wouldn't believe a miracle.

But I certainly would believe any reliable, objective support from reality.

Otherwise I cannot tell the difference between:

Your claim being an actual part of reality.
Your claim being only a part of your imagination.

If it is impossible for you to show such a difference with your claim, then I simply ask for you to stop claiming that you have definitive knowledge of a portion of reality. For, obviously, it's quite possible that it certainly is no more than your imagination.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 2:43 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 3:06 PM Stile has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 117 of 175 (488085)
11-07-2008 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Stile
11-07-2008 2:53 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
You seek a death to religion.

Good luck.

In the meantime I like all others in the world will speak of what I know and believe.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 2:53 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by rueh, posted 11-07-2008 4:02 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 124 by Stile, posted 11-08-2008 10:10 AM Greatest I am has responded

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 1585 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 118 of 175 (488091)
11-07-2008 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Greatest I am
11-07-2008 3:06 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
GIA writes:

In the meantime I like all others in the world will speak of what I know and believe.

How exactly do you plan to do that? I am not entirely convinced that you are even for sure what that is. You claim, that the God in your head does not do miracles, then go on to claim that God is speaking directly to you. Which I am not for sure....let me check in my miracle book here..... Yes, indeed, direct intervention from God through commincation that only one person can percieve is indeed a miracle. Or a sign of delusion, which may require the need for conseling and lithium. That is for society to judge.

Edited by rueh, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 3:06 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 5:33 PM rueh has not yet responded

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 119 of 175 (488101)
11-07-2008 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by rueh
11-07-2008 4:02 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
just keep on talking.

Communication with God I do not call a miracle. This communication is triggered by man, not God. He responds, He does not initiate.

The cosmic conscience is our next evolution. It is a natural progression. No miracles.

If God wanted us to believe in miracles He would have left one here for us to contemplate. He has not and cannot do miracles.

We attribute miracles to God wrongly. They are a human want only.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by rueh, posted 11-07-2008 4:02 PM rueh has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Granny Magda, posted 11-07-2008 6:56 PM Greatest I am has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 875 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 120 of 175 (488104)
11-07-2008 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Greatest I am
11-07-2008 1:40 PM


I judged your other comments to not be worthy of thought.

Did you really?

Firstly, I cannot judge anyone's beliefs.

Stay focused, you did pass judgment on not only the people who wrote the Bible, but on those who read it literally. It is their belief that it must be done this way. If you say they are wrong and you are right in the way you believe, then you have passed judgement on their process of belief. So, admit to passing judgement and move on from it.

There is nothing wrong with well placed arrogance. Mine is not based on a talking snake so I resent the association.

Then don't associate yourself with people of faith. You placed yourself in their company by being a person who believes in God. No matter what version you've made up for yourself. You have faith, they have faith, you are BOTH people of faith. You are associated by default.

Yours may be based on your version but, since you can't provide evidence for your version being any more real than their version, you both are equally believers in a faith based belief system. Neither better than the other.

My God is not superior to the miracle making God. He is just real.

In what sense? Where is he located so that I may see him? Don't say I have to experience him because I hate to burst your bubble but, thats what the people who believe in the talking snake God say too. You are both equally placing faith in your versions of God.

I just have the update.

Oh, so you have the God 10.0 version.

My experience in speaking to God is no better than anyone else's. There are just very few of us who have.

I have. Have you? Who then should teach who?

I have had spiritual experiences but I don't attribute it to a God. It was a subjective experience, period.

I suggest you don't teach anyone anything 'cause you are clearly talking shit at this point.


"All great truths begin as blasphemies"

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks

"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 1:40 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 8:59 AM onifre has responded

  
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