Before the Big Bang

I resemble this remark! It's so true.lfen

Hangdawg13 Well that is my point exactly and the one I wish to have someone explain.Just how does he reveal himnself. It is a him right?You have seen for yourself which sex god is?Jazzlover states that he knows but how does he know? Jazzlover states that it has something to do with the heart and I wish to persue what exactly is meant by this.Perhaps we could also discuss this in another topic please?This message has been edited by sidelined, 11-20-2004 03:38 PM

You're right, I'm sorry to push this a little off topic. I spose I will start a topic about the difference between "knowing" and "believing".

That would be a very...exciting topic. Probley would start several arguments between the athiests and the religious. I think you should

Its not our physical heart, which I am sure you are aware of, but it is where our emotions, love, and free will are found. Like our souls, I guess.

I know that God lives in the spiritual dimension just the same way you know the big bang happened. Thats called faith

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Ponlo todo en las manos de Dios y que se joda el mundo. El principio de la sabiduria es el temor a Jehova

jazzlover_PR I do not know what occured with the big bang and neither does anyone else.We have clues and many models some of which are better supported than others but the exact nature what occured before at the interval before planck time {10*-43sec after T=0} Big bang is the name given to it because the laws of physics require the initial state of the universe to be extremely hot{> 10*11 K}You have previously stated that god is beyond human understanding and yet you also claim to know he lives in a spiritual dimension. As with the example highlighted above you make a statement about what we cannot understand and then turn around and state that you can. This is where my confusion lies.Again we must get these discussions into another topic and discuss them there as we areagain off topic.Please do start a new post so that we may further discuss this issue OK?

Very clever!! I agree!!!!

Again i've not read all of the posts, so ignore this if it's repeating something already said... The problem with us humans trying to understand the universe is our severe limitations posed by language. Our concept of time leads us to think of time as something totally seperate to anything else, and something totally linear. We percieve some sort of eternal line, and events are hung on this line. The problem comes when our concepts don't match up with reality, so we come up with questions that don't actually make sense.With time, it isn't linear and it isn't seperate from the universe. It is as ingrained a part of the universe as anything else. There really is no meaning to the term "before the universe" as far as our models of the universe go. Imagine a man stood on the north pole and asking the local polar bear which direction north is. The question can't be answered, because every direction is south. There is no "north".I have heard of theories in which time does extend before the big bang, but I have no idea how scientific they are or what evidence there is for them. Unfortunately they are likely unfalsifiable.

The Big Bang possibly was the collision of other dimentions known as membranes. One membrane colliding into another resulting in a manifestation of the physical universe. Time is a function of Space and vice versa. Time does not exist prior to T=0, so postulating a "before" is moot. The Big Bang is humanities attempt to trace back the events that occured which perpeturated the stretching of space/time and the formation of the elements/gas/stars/sentient life.
The events postulated are continually being confirmed by observations made by the hubble telescope and the disciplines of science. Although it is difficult to imagine the universe being a singularity
it is likewise difficult to imagine what your own eye looks like without the aid of a mirror. Humans are reduced to perceiving reality through the physical laws of nature. If something is outside of humans ability to percieve it then how would we ever know it exist? This seems to be the main argument I get from many Theist. And although one can always say "but how do YOU know" I contend that Occams razor is reason enough not to introduce duality into our current state of understanding. Simply saying I dont know will suffice for me.

Thank you, though I understand little of what you just said. I am assuming that you have a degree or PhD in something. You are saying that we don't know what was before the Big Bang and we have little hope of finding out?

But time is only an idea as well. Humans created time. Basicly I'm saying that perhaps there was time before the Big Bang, humans just haven't given it the right to be called time. Thank you, none the less.

I disagree. Humans also invented yardsticks but that doesn't mean that height, width, and depth are illusions or inventions. Like time, they're very real properties of space. (Actually, spacetime.)

Aha, but measurements are only as long as we say they are. Measurements are only the length of space that we wish to group.

Uh, yes. Obviously. So what? A second is only as long as we say it is.But it doesn't matter if I measure the distance between New York and London in miles, or you do it in kilometers. We're both measuring the same thing; the amount of space between New York and London exists, and is very real.