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Author Topic:   Before the Big Bang
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 311 (397023)
04-23-2007 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Reserve
04-23-2007 7:14 PM


Re: Big Bang = Big Contradiction?
In order for some thing to happen (like the big bang) you need equations.
That's retarded.
Equations come after the thing happens.
We know that objects fall at 9.8 m/s/s after they have fallen, they don't fall at that rate because of the equation.
What were you trying to say?
For scientists can only work on the idea that we live in an ordered universe and can make predictions.
That's reatarded too.
Scientists can work because we live in an ordered universe and can make predictions.
And yet, scientist say you cannot talk about before this "time". I can.
Can you also answer the question:
quote:
What is north of the Noth Pole?
Because that's the metaphor for the beginning of time. It is a point on a sphere, not a line, and there is nothing before it (accoding to modern science){nor north of it}.
For we KNOW that before this event, equations existed to make all this happen, outside of time.
Dude... the equations didn't exist before we approximated them. They are our creation. They didn't exist before we wrote them down.
Why do we know this? well, the other idea is that it all happened out of nothing.
Look, I beleive in God too. But yall are going about this the wrong way. You can't fight science to prove god. God relies on faith. A faith that requires proof is no faith at all.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : added signature

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"
He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Reserve, posted 04-23-2007 7:14 PM Reserve has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 311 (412583)
07-25-2007 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by ICANT
07-25-2007 1:02 PM


Re: Singularity solutions are the subtopic....
The area I bolded states nearly all the galaxies were moving away from us. If nearly all but not all are moving away from us that means some are moving towards us. If some are moving towards us how could everything in the universe have orginated a that single point in spacetime you refered to in an earlier msg.
Thinking of the universe as a sphere growing in size, and drawing a vector from the center of the sphere to two point near each other on the surface, we will get two near-parallel lines. If these lines represent the pathway of two galaxies that started at the Big Bang (moving away from each other although very near parallel), then the force of gravity between these two galaxis could pull them towards each other until they were on a collision course.
It is not impossible for galaxies to collide under the Big bang Theory.
Also, its not like they're colliding like this: --> <--
ABE:
Why should I not come to the conclusion that everything we see in the universe came from absolutely nothing according to TBB?
Because it doesn't say that everything came from absolutely nothing. Everything was there, it was just in a different state and location than it is now.
Even if it wasn't much, it was not nothing. It was something.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by ICANT, posted 07-25-2007 1:02 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by ICANT, posted 07-25-2007 3:48 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 311 (412633)
07-25-2007 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by ICANT
07-25-2007 3:48 PM


Re: Singularity solutions are the subtopic....
The sites that I had referenced:
Even if a website says that the Big Bang theory says that stuff came from nothing, that doesn't mean that the actual Big Bang Theory say that it came from nothing, which it doesn't.
The nasa site said: "Most importantly, this meant that there must have been an instant in time (now known to be about 14 billion years ago) when the entire Universe was contained in a single point in space." How could there be an instant in time? Time did not exist. How could there be a point in space? When space itself did not exist.
That's just poor wording. You shouldn't use a webpage that is describing a theory as the actual theory itself.
The singularity would have been all of space and all of time in one point. That point is the point in spacetime that the singularity existed "in". Spacetime didn't not exist at all, it was just in a different state and different position than it is now.
Space.com says: "The Big Bang is often thought as the start of everything, including time." What is not included in everything?
Again, you shouldn't use a website's paraphrasing as the literal theory.
I presume that the singularity, itself, would not be included in that everything as the Big Bang did not start the singularity. The singularity was there "before" the "bang".
If there was No:
Space
Time
Particles
Matter
Energy
What was there and where was it?
Time is just another dimenstion, like space is, so we can refer to them both as spcetime. At the singularity, spacetime didn't not exist, it all existed at one point.
Particles and matter came later, after the Big Bang.
I think Energy was present at the singularity.
The only way I see they could collide would be if they started in opposite directions and the universe is a sphere and one goes clockwise and the other counter clockwise then they could meet but it would take a lot longer than 20 billion years.
I believe you that that is the only way that you can see it happening, but that is not the only possible way of it happening.
The only other possibility would be that they started at a small degree of angle difference which grew to a very large difference then something changed their direction so as to make them angle back together to meet at a point in the future.
Right. GRAVITY.
It wouldn't have been a sudden change in direction though. It would have gradually been curving their trajectories closer and closer towards each other.
If that took place how much force would have to be applied to a galaxy as large as either the Milky Way or Andromedia to change their course considering the speed at which the two large masses are traveling. Sounds possible but not probable.
The larger the mass the more gravity and the more force so it is entirely possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by ICANT, posted 07-25-2007 3:48 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by ICANT, posted 07-27-2007 2:19 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 290 of 311 (414217)
08-03-2007 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by ICANT
08-02-2007 8:41 PM


Re: more on singularities
Can you even admit that it is poosible that you are misunderstanding what Prof. Hawking said about spacetime having a beginning and an end?
He is NOT saying that the universe came from an absense of anything. You have misunderstood him. "Beginning and end" are describing something other than the birth/death of our universe.
Can you not see that as a possibility?
Or are you going to continue to make yourself look like an idiotic asshole by closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears, and screaming "La, La, La!, Hawking says the universe cane from nothing!"???!!!!!!!!?????
Man, your pissing me off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2007 8:41 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by ICANT, posted 08-03-2007 2:36 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 295 of 311 (414229)
08-03-2007 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by ICANT
08-03-2007 2:36 PM


Re: more on singularities
Who has the blinders on?
You do.
That means if the universe came from singularity the singularity had to come from an absence of anything.
No, it doesn't.
If that is true then the singularity that the universe came from had to be somewhere which did not exist until after the big bang.
Wrong. The singularity did not have to arrise because of gravity.
No gravity no beginning of spacetime.
This is your false premise.
Gravity curls up spacetime so that it has a begining and an end.
This is the formation of A singularity. This is not how the singularity formed (the one that our universe arrose from).
That is where your misunderstanding is.
Now do you understand?
Or are you just going to re-post the sameold bullshit you have, what?, like 10 times now?
It really does make you look foolish.
But I think that you will continue to choose to beLIEve and choose to be blind to the facts so that you can continue to believe that somehow the science is ridiculous and your Gen1:1 has value.
You are disingenuous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by ICANT, posted 08-03-2007 2:36 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by ICANT, posted 08-03-2007 3:17 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

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