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Author | Topic: Why must we believe *before* we die? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
The bible says we will feel like fish out of water. It's couldn't be more accurate. A believer longs for his true water - heaven. The analogy seems a little confused. If we are fish, then the water corresponds to worldly evil, or something of that sort. Dry land equals heaven. So heaven can't be water. Heaven is the place where all the paradoxes are supposed to unravel--one is both a self and not a self; God is both all-powerful and all-good and yet contains or creates or permits evil; people are both free and pre-destined; what God says is good is good and yet God also obeys some higher laws of goodness . . . and many other impossibilites.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Mother Theresa, Hilter, you, me. All steeped in the filth and dirt of sin. There was only one born and who remained sinless. Only one who was considered a suitable sacrifice on which to lay sin. But death couldn't hold Jesus - which is why he rose from death If everybody is equally bad, then He might as well let us all off. No need for hell.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
He will save anyone who reaches out their hand There's your definition of goodness. Those who "reach out their hand" are good; those who don't aren't. This reaching-out-of-the hand is obviously of paramount importance--moral importance.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The "self" that we "lose" in the Christian life is the fallen nature, the selfish self The self is selfish by its very nature. To be a distinct individual automatically includes the quality of self-ishness. The only way to lose one's selfishness is to be blended into a soul-stew of many, wherein the integrity of the self is lost.
God cannot commit the first but permits it in his sentient creatures. Here's the conundrum. There is no need for any distinction between "permitting" and "doing." What God permits must be good; if not, He is not good.
from OUR point of view we are free to choose One point of view has to be the real point of view. That would be God's, presumably, not ours.
God IS all the laws of goodness No, no, we can't be making these comments about God that make it seem as if He's not a being in an attempt to smooth over the logical problem. God is a being not a law. So a moral law is either right because God says so, or God is adhering to some moral system that he did not invent. If the moral law is right because God says so, then it is subjective on God's part. He might very well have decided on the opposite law--say, "Thou shalt murder." But if he is proclaiming what is right because it is right by its very nature, irregardless of what God thinks, then God is adhering to a system that is above Him.
Why should we be able to understand the Being who made everything including ourselves If we cannot understand this Being, then we have no way of affirming what he wants or doesn't want.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
That's wiggling off the hook. It is not I who is trying to wiggle off the hook--at least not the logical hook. There has to be some distinction between those who are damned and those who are saved, unless you are suggesting it's a lottery. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The distinction is how a person reacts to Gods call OK. So how a person reacts to God's call determines their level of goodness or badness. Only good people go to heaven. I didn't say "perfect." I said good.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
It's the fallen nature that is selfish, but not being selfish is not losing your identity We are, obviously, using two different meanings of "selfish." You are using it in the moral sense, and I am using it in the logical sense. "Selfish" means, as I am using it, "qualities of being a self." If one is an individual, one has certain qualities. One of these "qualiities" is "selfishness." Now what does this mean? I think that would mean that one is concerned with one's self. And you are telling me that one can imagine a situtation in which one is not concerned with one's self? Of course one can imagine it. Of course, I attempt to help others. But deep in my heart--and perhaps deep in your heart--you know that the most important person is yourself.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
A person reacts to Gods call based on a willingness to deal with reality You do not seem to understand my point. My point is that he who has faith in God is better than the person who does not. Only good people go to heaven.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
and I believe that this will ultimately amount to an even greater good that we can't even imagine yet. This means, Faith, that there is no such thing as evil.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
BTW, I don't think "selfish" is often used in the purely logical sense, is it? No, it's not ordinary, but I'm doing it because I think I have a point to make. I'm not real sure about my point--as usual. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 10-01-2005 11:18 PM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
This is what Christianity (and most religions) are all about: *Desperation*. For many, religion is a mere hobby.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Christianity is the only 'religion' where you postition or future depends NOT upon what you do but on what God has done for you. More nonsense. Christianity has as many rules and regulations as any other religion. Your bias is obvious.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Name even one law, the carrying out of which will get you to heaven. Having faith.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Good people don't go to heaven. Righteous people do. Same thing. "Good"="righteous."
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Where is faith described as a law? The Covenant of Grace.
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