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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What evidence absolutely rules out a Creator | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Interesting. I do have a fondness for that period (1900-1950). The period I have actually lived in I find rather boring. I always wanted one of those hats the men wore back then. I wonder why hats went out. This is off topic but I do know the answer: JFK didn't wear one. Ended the fashion right there. Except my father went on wearing his fedora through the 60s. It was too much a part of him to give it up. I think we may have a different understanding of what Modernism refers to, your frame of reference being largely literary, right? I'll do a little research and get back to you on that.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
It appears that the transitionals eliminate creationism yet I can't see them eliminating God as evidence...Come on, now. Itslike that far-side comic where the professor writing on a chalkboard "proves" that he does not exist...and then....*POOF* he dissappears!
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
It appears that the transitionals eliminate creationism yet I can't see them eliminating God as evidence...Come on, now. See message 23. Also, the one entitled "my view."
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I don't see anything too terribly wrong with the Christian idea that God gave man free will and man screwed up. If man screwed up, then man was flawed. A creation that contains something flawed is not perfect. The idea of the Fall - that a perfect creation manifested a flaw anyway - is self-contradictory.
God knows what he's going to do but that's not the same thing as making him do it. Oh? Excuse me? God is not the creator of Man in your religion? Well, the Bible says that he is, of course. And if God did indeed create Adam, then he created all parts of Adam, including his future. Adam was created to do exactly what he did; God did make him do it because God made him to do it.
And then there's the Fortunate Fall idea. The Fall, though bad, yields a greater glory. That's a pretty standard rationale for abuse. "I'm abusing you now to bring us closer together." It's the standard treatment at military school and boot camp. You'll pardon me if the moral calculus doesn't quite add up. 6 thousand years (we'll use the YEC timeline) of death and horror just for the "privlege" of having 1.5 billion Christians tell me how great they are, and how I should be just like them, except if I'm gay or a woman who needs to have an abortion. Yeah, that's some "greater glory."
I don't think that's too logical. I don't think any of them are too logical. That's why I'm an atheist, remember? I didn't say that any of the religions handled it logically; Christianity certainly doesn't. But they're nontheless there, and they handle it to the satisfaction of their adherents. So clearly the Fall is merely one of several competing nonsense explanations of the problem of evil.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I've said it before Robin but it is worth repeating: for a non-Christian you make a surprisingly good Christian apologist. Cribbing Mere Christianity and the like doesn't a compelling apologetics make. This message has been edited by crashfrog, 03-13-2006 08:20 PM
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
What is "perfect"? A design is perfect when it suits its purpose. A mirror is perfect as a mirror, not something can flight you from California to London, not something knows your feeling and gives your comfort via a chat. So you cant be sure what's perfect or not unless you know the design and its purpose.
The "perfect" you are asking for is non-existence in the world, as nothing will be eternal here. Freewill is perfect in a sense that it allows freewill, you screwed it up, admit that. You desire a perfect world in the bottom of your heart, admit that. You need God deep inside your soul, admit that. Then repent and you'll be in the perfect world as you desire, which is eternal, where you no longer abuse your freewill to its every bit, with God's direct guidance. This message has been edited by Hawkins, 03-13-2006 08:10 PM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Cribbing Mere Christianity and the like doesn't a compelling apologetics make. Lewis' idea, if I remember correctly, is this notion of God being "outside of time." He cribbed that from Boethius. And later Calvin.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Actually, the idea of looking at predestination from the point of view of both parties (God and man) came from Faith in some discussion we had months ago. There is one sentence that echoes Lewis, however. I'm constantly plagiarizing.
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 03-13-2006 10:01 PM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
But they're nontheless there, and they handle it to the satisfaction of their adherents. So clearly the Fall is merely one of several competing nonsense explanations of the problem of evil. I don't see how these religions directly address the problem of human sufffering, but then I don't know that much about the Eastern religions.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
God did make him do it because God made him to do it. I think a plausible argument can be made for free will, if we forget about evolution (which eliminates it).
That's a pretty standard rationale for abuse. "I'm abusing you now to bring us closer together." It's the standard treatment at military school and boot camp. Not quite the same thing, compared to eternity.
You'll pardon me if the moral calculus doesn't quite add up. 6 thousand years (we'll use the YEC timeline) of death and horror just for the "privlege" of having 1.5 billion Christians tell me how great they are, and how I should be just like them, except if I'm gay or a woman who needs to have an abortion. Yeah, that's some "greater glory." Maybe these Christians who have this belief are real up-to-date and politically correct. It's such a pleasant way to be.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I think a plausible argument can be made for free will, if we forget about evolution (which eliminates it). I guess I don't know what is meant by "free will."
Maybe these Christians who have this belief are real up-to-date and politically correct. It's such a pleasant way to be. I haven't had the same experience, I guess.
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veiledvirtue Inactive Member |
quote: if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice! This message has been edited by veiledvirtue, 03-13-2006 11:43 PM
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice! If no one tells me what it means, I have no choice but to be ignorant.
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veiledvirtue Inactive Member |
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veiledvirtue Inactive Member |
quote: im sure you have the unabridged definition somewhere under those 11,141 posts
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