God is cruel

Sure. Thoughts come as they will, one reaction leads to another. My point of view might change based on those reactions, but they're out of my conscious hands. Then... there we go. That's pretty much what I've been saying. Thanks! The red scarf is one I have in real life; my friend Leah knitted it for me.

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"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

a little test then.. don't think about green elephants....
make a real effort not to think about them, get all images of green elephants out of your head.
having much success?

But you've also been saying that my belief in god is not a choice, although I consider it to be one. Oh, cool.

Yes, total success.I'm not claiming total control of all thoughts, I mean, when I see a girl eating a banana......never mind.But still, reading

quote:

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don't think about green elephants....
make a real effort not to think about them, get all images of green elephants out of your head.

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doesn't make me think about green elephants if I decide to not think about them.

But... if you just said you can't make yourself believe something that you don't already believe, then... ?

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"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

Well, maybe it should be rephrased to 'you can't make yourself believe in something that you disbelieve'. I think that you could begin to believe something that you previously lacked belief in (but not neccessarily disbelieved). Yeah, not like flipping a light switch but you can change you mind(well maybe not you since you don't control it).

Bet you're thinking about green elephant as you read this sentance.Thing is, you can't avoid an initial mental reaction, if you walk down the road and see a bus, somewhere in your head you thinking 'bus'

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in what way is allowing ALL humanity to be punished when ONE man commits murder or adultery, just or fair??

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The guilty by association syndrome is devastating to those who have not personally lifted a hand in anger. Humanity is our lot, and we share it with those who act on what is in all of us........the ability. To consider.......Thinking to kill someone, thinking to cheat on a spouse, is the same as doing it. What kind of punishment befalls the 'thinker'?
What kind of law have you broken? If you break one, you are guilty of breaking all, according to scripture and civil laws as well.James 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

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I don't see how this is true.. but I'm going to run with it.
is this Just?
is this fair?
should I suffer because someone far away, with no connection to me decides to spend the night with a hooker?

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Facts are neither fair not just, they are facts.
As for the hooker? He may have VD, he may spread it over a far away distance, he will get medical treatment, he may not have insurance, he may have children he cannot nurture, feed, he may steal to feed a habit, he may.........he may.........he may.
Do you see the connection to you and how true it is?
Fact is, we're in this whether we like it or not. Stop the world I want to get off..........I've tried it, it doesn't work.

but god has condemned us to this existance right?
so therefore god has condemned us to an existance that is neither fair nor Just (according to what you say above),therefore God is neither fair nor just

I'm not disputing whether guilt by association is well established in our legal and social structure or not. What we're discussing here is whether it's just and fair or if it's cruel. What do you think ? what about a new-born baby that has broken no law, yet dies of a horrible disease as a result of the sins of its parents ?is that just?or is it cruel?

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

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But you've also been saying that my belief in god is not a choice, although I consider it to be one.

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Well, then, it must therefore be a choice to not believe in God, right?Why don't you stop believing in God for a week, then, since it's just something you've chosen to do?

nope. Understood. I haven't been equating 'an initial mental reaction' with thinking.

I would say that disbelieveing god is a choice but lacking belief is not. I stopped believing in the past, for longer than a week (about 2-3 years), but then I decided to come back. I don't feel like leaving again.

Wish those damn goalposts would stay still!