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Author | Topic: God is cruel | |||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes, many people have seen it like that. Those are good examples of the mental gymnastics that are necessary in order to try to obscure the contradictions in the various Genesis myths.
If the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil doesn't actually but just a test, there is no explanation for the change in their behavior before being confronted by GOD. In addition, that would make the Tree of Life just another test and remove the fear that GOD exhibited that they might eat from it. Sorry, but frankly those commentaries seem to be nothing more than mental gymnastics. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sorry but frankly your views are the mental gymnastics, simply to justify your own idiosyncratic misreading of the scripture.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1313 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
thanks for the best wishes...
but I'm surprised and a little dissapointed that no christian on here can counter that argument
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It's been countered. That's the point.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1313 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
show me where... please..
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Creavolution writes: So we're nearling the end of this thread and no one has shown that God is not cruel. I have posed the same question over and over and nothing. I think purpleyouko summed it up when he/she said that it is faith speaking.to me, the actions of the God of the bible reflect a cruel God. 1)The fall, and the fact that humanity is paying for theactions of A&E is neither fair nor just. 2)the notion that an innocent newborn child would pay for the sins of its parents is neither fair nor just So, God has acted to bring about a situation which is neither fair nor just. it follows that God is neither fair nor just. That only holds true if they accept that there was a Fall and Original Sin. Many Christians don't think either is the case. So, would a Christian that agrees those two things would indicate a cruel God and that does not accept that there was a Fall or that the sins of some long dead parent are vested on the child show a GOD that is not cruel. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5550 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
riVeRraT writes: If God created it all, then everything you see is evidence of Him. True, but if god doesn't exist and didn't create it all, then everything we see is not evidence of him. This kind of argument leaves us pretty much back where we started (it begs the question) and therefore is an empty point
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No problem Faith. Folk will read your defense of your position, they will read my defense of my position, and they will decide which makes more sense.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ReverendDG Member (Idle past 4140 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: |
herefore she would not follow the serpent's voice. The reason she did is given in scripture -- he persuaded her she would be like God. That is ego.
only if you, view wanting to be like god = ego, i'm not so sure it was really about ego, or more like a child wanting to be like thier parents, we want to be like someone we love
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
And I think that you good folk have said your points already...but we have 6 more posts to assert whether God...IF He exists...is cruel or not.
Please make your final points and either AdminJar or I will then put this cruel thread to bed!
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
God is cruel among many other things. Job and the crucifixion evidence this as well as killing infants in Jericho and turning people to salt! Well, not that that happened.
Yes, cruel from the ego's stand point. Though I don't believe hell is permanent yet it is horrible the hells that people experience for hours, days, years on end. Long enough. Ramana said:
Maharshi: I do not teach only the ajata doctrine. I approve of all schools. The same truth has to be expressed in different ways to suit the capacity of the hearer. The Ajata doctrine says, ”Nothing exists except the one reality. There is no birth or death, no projection or drawing in, no seeker, no bondage, no liberation. The one unity alone exists.’ hinduism.co.za - This website is for sale! - hinduism Resources and Information.
It's all part of the dream and it's only dream. lfen
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
But you simply avoided the questions... I'm not even sure why you quoted me as your response had little to do with what I asked. I am sorry if you do not understand. You asked about the fall, and our suffering. What you percieve as suffering may actually be God just showing you things. It's all about our free will and what we choose. It's all about knowing God. It is what separates us from being like a tree. We may not be in the garden of eden any more, but we aren't in hell. The perverbial tree still exists. When you sin, it is like eating from the tree, and it separates you from God.
maybe we are all part of my imagination No, it's my imagination, I am the only real person alive!!!!Don't ruin it for me maybe we are electrons circling a nucleus... maybe we are crutons in a universal soup... maybe...maybe....maybe... I used to think this way too.
I have been simply seeking to find out how a christian can reconcile that with the notion of a benevolent/merciful (non-cruel) God. No one seems to be getting close to explaining this. Back to what I said earlier. How can one know and appreciate the light, until they have seen the dark?The light is God, and the dark is anything that you think is not from Him. But it is all from Him ultimately. Could you be a doctor unless you went to college and worked hard at it? It is the school of life. God's ways, are not our ways, so we don't understand it, until we make an attempt at getting closer to Him, and then He starts to speak to us. What you think is bad, is really just school. The bible says rejoice in our tribulations. The bible explains that we will suffer, so there is no surprises. Believeing in God is not fairy tale land. I do not see a problem with going through the school of life, so long as when I graduate, I can go to heaven. God has done way to many awesome things for me in my life for me not to believe.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Creavolution writes: maybe we are all part of my imagination... maybe we are electrons circling a nucleus... maybe we are croutons in a universal soup... maybe...maybe....maybe... And maybe we are finally given the opportunity....through communication....to fullfill our purpose and destiny! RiverRat is a good friend as well! My take on the whole matter is How could God be so cruel if so many ordinary people are not? Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Where did you get the name, fallacycop? Are you from Brazil?? How are things there? I have heard that they have a lot of voodoo and supernatural beliefs down there! You gotta tell me about them some time! (Brazil, that is!)
If I can see that you are not cruel, I can have hope that IF God exists, God also is not cruel! This message has been edited by Phat, 04-15-2006 04:58 AM Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Faith writes: There is nothing ambiguous about understanding that her motive was pride, the desire to be like God. Of course there's ambiguity. We're talking about language, here. When the serpent says in Gen 3:5 "...you will be like God, knowing good and evil," does he mean completely like God, but only mentioning a couple qualities explicitly? Or like God only respecting those qualities and no others? Or like God regarding only some qualities, of which a couple are mentioned explicitly? And later in Gen 3:6 we read, "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom..." Is "gaining wisdom" the same as knowing good and evil? Does it mean gaining some of the qualities of God? All of the qualities of God? Has Eve accepted the serpent's words at face value (whose meaning is unclear, anyway), or has she interpreted them in some other way? The only thing I'm certain of is that there's not enough information to be certain. --Percy
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