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Author | Topic: Open Question For Jerry Falwell (and those who agree with him) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
simple  Inactive Member |
quote:We will! We decide that as we speak. quote:He had to, the monkey bangers were wicked beyond all speaking. quote:The Pharoh was quite capable of letting His people go. His own wicked mouth decided his judgement. quote:Enemies of God and His people. quote:That is a lie. He desires not the death of the wicked, and takes no pleasure in it. Sometimes it has to be done for the preservation of mankind, and His wonderful eternal plan for man. If He let the wicked wreck it up, we all would be doomed. Edited by whisper, : No reason given. Edited by whisper, : No reason given.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
We will! We decide that as we speak. So, there is really no need for Jesus to judge anyone?
He had to, the monkey bangers were wicked beyond all speaking. How do you know this? Anyway, God Himself acknowledged that the Flood was an over-reaction; you think He would have seen it coming.
The Pharoh was quite capable of letting His people go. His own wicked mouth decided his judgement. This is incorrect. The Bible explicitly states that God made it impossible for pharaoh to let the Israelites so that Yahweh could show off. Exod. 7:3-5 But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in Egypt, he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites. And the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out of it." Exod 9:12 12 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses. This one has Yahweh happily announcing that He is desperate to slaughter Egyptians to quench His thirst for blood. Exod. 10:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them Exod. 11:10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.There are a few more verses supporting Yahweh hardening pharaoh’s heart, it is extremely obvious that this is what the Bible says, even Paul acknowledges it in the NT Book of Romans. Romans 9:17-18 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Enemies of God and His people. Love your enemies. It is amazing how one can develop a mindset that will allow that person to justify anything, no matter how abhorrent, and help maintain their fantasy.
That is a lie. The Bible must lie then because that is where I got my examples.
He desires not the death of the wicked, and takes no pleasure in it. How do you know this? I would suggest that Bible implies otherwise as God frequently took pleasure from the odour of burnt offerings.
Sometimes it has to be done for the preservation of mankind, and His wonderful eternal plan for man. So, we have to slaughter almost all of mankind in order to save mankind? This seems a bit illogical to me. You would think that a perfect being such as Yahweh would be a little more competent.
If He let the wicked wreck it up, we all would be doomed. Don’t worry about it mate, it is only an ancient camp fire side tale made up to scare little children. Brian.
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CK Member (Idle past 4157 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
Hi brian,
this is quite interesting - quote: Where is the free will in this? or are we about to get the usual "em..er.. it's OT and em.. it's different.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Where is the free will in this? I think this is just another example of how the free will defence is intensely flawed, but more so, it is another obvious example of how the Bible is a man made book, complete with human flaws. The Bible is much like other ancient texts, the authors were not writing a critical history of anything, they were writing up a propaganda brochure. There are so many examples of the Bible authors writing up ludicrous scenarios that it is difficult to pick out the craziest. A couple of examples that come quickly to mind is when the 2 midwives are ordered by pharaoh to kill all the male Israelite babies when they are born, their reply to pharaoh is that all the Hebrew women are so hardy that they give birth before the midwives arrive! The author of that text was too dense to realise that the pahraoh's immediate reply would have been to say "so why do you have midwives then?" Another one is Samson killing a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of an ass. Any semi conscious general would have called up the archers after Samson had killed 4 or 5 soldiers. Great book, but not to be taken too seriously. Brian.
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:Depends if they have yet had a chance to receive Him or reject Him or not. If they have, they have sealed their own fate. quote:Recent evidence suggests that chimps and men have interbred, if I have read it right. If it is true, then where else in a biblical past would this bad thing have occurred? quote:???? I don't think so. quote:A natural concequence of going down the road of rejection of God, is that the heart gets hardened. God knows this. Yet, the Egyptian people still got a lesson in all this, despite the Pharoah. Nothing can stop God when He decides something is going to get done. Certainly not some bitter rejectee. quote:It was the possessed rejectee Pharoah that had a mindset that was abhorant. He wanted to hold God's people in heathen, pagan darkness and slavery when God said 'enough', let em go, pronto. Kids today in many schools are held in my opinion in heathen, pagan darkness and slavery as well! Watch out, God might stir. quote: Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Thats how I know.
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CK Member (Idle past 4157 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
quote: Hold on - that's NOT what it says. God EXPLICITLY states that it is he who has hardnened the pharoah's heart - he says it at least THREE times. Why do you feel it's accept to twist what the bible says to suit your agenda? Don't you believe it's the world of god?
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nator Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: But what if they called themselves Christians, and most Christians felt exactly as they did at the time? Who are you to tell them they were not Christian? Maybe they were bad Christians, or misguided Christians, but Christians they most certainly were.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1373 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Calling the killers Christians is as easy as saying that Christians are on a crusade now to wipe out muslims. That is not true. Certainly not missionaries. The bad guys were not the missionaries or genuine Christians. Whether you like to call them Christians or not. if we are judged to be christians or "not christians" by the heinousness of our deeds, then we will all fall far short of the mark. rather, we are defined by our belief. it is our faith that makes us christians, and our faith (and the grace of god) that saves us. all of us. if we think their actions demonstrate their lack of genuine belief, then we will be held to same standards. and all of our errors and shortcomings and failures will be held against us as evidence that we do not truly believe what we say. we do believe -- but we are human, and we fail, and we sin nonetheless.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
[qs]???? I don't think so.
5 Then *the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." he regretted ever making anything because man was so evil. Gen 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done. and then here he regrets destroying the earth and says he won't do it again.
Kids today in many schools are held in my opinion in heathen, pagan darkness and slavery as well! Watch out, God might stir. so this time it won't be bullied kids killing christians but christians and "god" killing everyone else? sorry. i'd really rather god not move the way he does around children. blood happens. how could you possibly want this just because you have to put in a little more effort teaching your kids the stuff you want them to learn?
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
Kids today in many schools are held in my opinion in heathen, pagan darkness and slavery as well!
I guess you must be talking about home schooling. In the public schools, it is the teachers who are held in slavery
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simple  Inactive Member |
Why did He allow Pharoah's heart to be hardened? Because He felt like making the guy miserable? No. Because Pharoah rejected His message, His word via Moses. The word was rejected, not accepted or received. This is when God will send delusion. This is when a heart can be hardened. The decision is made already by the person.
2Thes 2b:..because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
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simple  Inactive Member |
Most 'Christians' are not missionaries. Most Christians did not sell whiskey to natives or give them smallpox on purpose.
The ones who supported masacres were duped, and wrong in most cases, I would say. Like Bush, and those who support him. The Arabs think it is a "Christian" crusade. I disagree. Edited by whisper, : No reason given.
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simple  Inactive Member |
Ha. Well, let all the slaves go I say.
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:We shall stand in out lot, yes indeed. The bible is a good guideline. There it says our weapons are not physical, but spiritual. He that lives by the sword shall die by the sword. A tree is known by the fruits it bears. A good tree can't bring forth evil fruits. If we see evil fruits, we know the tree is evil. If we are saved, we are saved, and will go to heaven when we die. But we can't call evil acts biblical, or what Jesus wanted and taught.The measure of 'Christian' is not in being numbered with multitudes of other mostly so called Christian people and what they think or do. Then labeling the whole package as 'Christian'. No. Some things, like nukes I believe, are so bad they should be destroyed. Those who use them don't do so at the behest of Jesus or the bible
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simple  Inactive Member |
quote:Right, man was so wicked He regretted it. So? He still fixed it, and sent a savior, and the plan is still going to be as planned. quote:Where is this again? Christians don't kill anyone. God did have to kill some to set the people free in Egypt, however, because they were so wicked they resisted His authority.
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