True Freedom

funnily enough, you too are tied down. But by what?
By the teachings of the Buddha and Jesus. You are "trapped" by their system.If you want to be truly free, then you need to make your own system. Define you very own philosophy--not on what others before you have said.By this I mean: your philosophy is not different from that of the Buddha, and a little from that of Jesus.Break free from these contraints. For they, too, are holding you down, holding you back. You cannot think outside of this "box" that you have made by imitation.You want to beat the system, fine. Go join Neo.
you won't though, because you like your "system" that has you as equally "trapped" as the "system" that has me trapped. Of course, I'm going down a different road then you--that of the pragmatist. I too, am in college--just started. I too, play music. But, I realize that there is nothing I can really do to change the system we live in. why? people like the status quo. Personally--I want to go back to the past, back when quality mattered.You bring nothing new, prophex. and what's the point of being a prophet if you only repeat what other's know?

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

you once said you read Siddhartha. I now ask you to go back a moment and remember some of the lessons that book taught.You might remember a recurrent idea in that novel.
When leaving the (forest nomads, can't remember their name, but I think it begins with a v), Siddhartha makes a comment.
When meeting the Buddha, who his friend Govinda later joins, you might remember a specific comment made to the Buddha.
At the end, you might remember a specific comment made to Govinda (unsure about last one).In each place, the idea is this--you cannot teach to others what you have learned.
why else must one go through the trials of life to finally, after so much times "wasted", one finally finds the true purpose in life. Wouldn't be easier if their was a prophet who could teach the way?
No one can though--you have to learn ON YOUR OWN.
this is why Siddhartha left the (forest dwellers), why he left the Buddha, why he left his father. What they taught, could only be learned by experience. And experience cannot be handed down.so while you can try to tell everyone the way, it will do no good. For they must learn the way on their own.this is one of the most important lessons of the book--ironic, considering the book is trying to teach us that, but it cannot be taught.just wanted to remind you of that.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

hey man, I'm about your all's ages. As in, this is my third day of college, and I'm a little over halfway to nineteen.so then, who has your brother, or you, read?I'll give you my list--and keep in mind, I've not read every single work by all of these.
Socrates
Plato
Aristotle
Augustine (one of the founding fathers of the catholic church)
(can't remember the name, but a different founding father of the catholic church, several centuries after the "a" dude. And I know I got his name wrong)
Descarte
Locke
Berkeley
Hume
Kant
Nietzche
Russel
Persing
and at least ten more that I can't remember. but modern day philosophers.
oh, wait--I've read some of the enlightment era in the US--but don't know who or what.I'm familiar with the ancient greek philosophers,
next semester, I should be taking a philosophy class or two.oh, yeah
I've read works, not by philosophers, but that illuminate the philosophies of the time, or of those writing.
I've never read a greek or roman classic, but I've read several of the modern classics--Jane Eyre, Farewell to Arms, Grapes of Wrath, Great Gatsby, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, Their eyes were watching god, the Old Man and the Sea, Farenhight 451, 1984, The Power and the Glory, Siddhartha, Lord of the Rings (if it's not--it soon will be), Hamlet, Macbeth, and a few more I can't remember.All I can say is this--if you were looking to find acceptance--you ain't gonna find it. Prophets aren't young for a reason. Messiahs for the same reason. You are being challenged, and all you two can offer is whining about how we don't get it, about how we're resisting.
Instead of doing that shit, challenge what we say. Show us why your shit is better, and how we're so stupid to not follow, if you two really do have a grasp on this. Not this whining crap.It might be a tad presumptous, but I'd say, given our age similiarities, but you two really don't have a clue.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

For some reason, I really liked Persing. Author of Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintence. Haven't read the follow up though--perhaps I can change that now.Kant was good too--I really liked the categorical imperitave, but I feel he doesn't have it quite right--so long as I understand what he says correctly. My objection has to deal with right and morality being linked inseparably--as in the case of the murdurer at the door.As far as politics goes, Locke is pretty good. For the empiricist movement, Hume, the last of the three and perhaps the best of them, is interesting to say the least. Sad I don't remember enough of him, or any of those I read. The consequences of a 7am class.This here is to messenjah:
I know you're inactive, but you're probably reading this still.
You lamented the criticism of your brother(?)'s credentials. So I gave you a list of who I've read to give you a little bit of background. I was somewhat hoping for you or your brother to give a list of those you've read.
Now that you mention Satre (existensialist dude) I recall not liking his philosophy at all. Don't remember why, but a quick read of his stuff will most likely remind me of the reason.
I am an emiricist--my signature is a paraphrase of something Locke said. As such, I'm in disagreement with Descarte's rationalism, even if he did create a whole geometry (or almost) of his own--analytical, I think it is.
As to the augustine--that paranthesis was me stating I didn't remember the name of the dude, but I knew certain things about him. If you read a bunch of my posts, you'll see that I use paranthesis for two things--questioning what I've called something, because I don't know if it's right, or as a clarification of something else. Both ways are used even in this post. It's not an insult at you.
As to the whining--how else am I to take your complaining of the criticism your brother(?) has recieved? And your posts in this thread, for the most part, haven't been filled with much. As someone said "what substance". And lately they've taken to lamenting just how idiotic everyone on this board is, and I can perfectly imagine a voice whining--"don't you see, it's so simple. Damn it people, can't you see!" with a high pitch. And I don't find whining funny, unless I ask you if you want some cheese with it. Your whining has been pointless, the worst kind.sorry for the aside, Archer.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

I don't agree with Hobbes too much (he's the one who thought that mankind was inherently bad, right?)I guess I have too optimistic a view of humanity to say that we're all dirt--or rather, jeez.I don't know how to put it. umm,
oh yeah--that no one can be trusted, and that we are all inherently, well, not evil, but not good. closer to evil than good.I just don't agree with that. yeah . . .maybe I can do more sharing after next semester--all depends on if I do decide to do a triple major, and get the plan approved.
In case you want to know
History (modern)
International Affairs (no clue which area to specialize in)
Philosophyif I do those three--well, I may be dead by the time I graduate.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

brits and their pragmatism.
mayhaps that was the secret to your all's success as an empire?

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

another take on freedom, this time coming from The Who.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

I don't think so.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

cool.I've heard that song before, but I really don't remember how it goes.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

wow. There are quite a few old people on this board. old enough to have seen Joplin in concert.and here I am just wishing I had been born about twenty years earlier to see zeppelin live.you guys could have actually been there.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

naw, man.ever hear dazed and confused live?
whole lotta love?
stairway?
heartbreaker?
no quarter?overall, zeppelin is to be experienced live--thank god I've got the live DVD set and How the West Was Won.studio just doesn't compare to their live stuff when they were on. when off (like when a concert was cancelled becasue Jimmy Page had had just a little bit too much crack--enough so that he couldn't play sitting or standing), better to have the studio around.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

what have I read of them?I have no clue what the titles were of the stuff I read in my philosophy class.I was more interested in what was in them, not thier titles. I've read at least on work by them, or perhaps more precisely, one excerpt from them. When you have 30ish weeks to cover all of philosophy, you don't read entire works.--only one was supposed to have been read, and only one or two of us actually read the entire thing--that was the ZatAoMM.anywho, read enough to understand where each was coming from--you'll have to catch me on this in about a year--I'm gunning for a triple major, history, international relations, philosophy.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

and from what I hear--a higher rate of suicide due to pressure to succeed.but it must be nice to be able to escape the narcissism. I think the reason it didn't hit me is that I'm a touch cynical, and more pragmatic.Better yet, I'm an idealistic pragmatist (and from now on, I will note the difference between the english and all those others who are a part of the british isles). I want to change the world, but I'm only going to try and change what is within my grasp--like making the switch from oil to hydrogen. And possibly getting my generation to start caring about some of the stuff going on. But it's not gonna happen overnight.actually, scratch that, and leave it me being an idealistic pragmatist that's cynical and skeptical. And no, I don't think I can explain my position.argh, never mind.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

before you make that claim, that no one here knows who any of the philosophers are, you might want to check.Do I know who Satre is? yes. did I like his existensialism--as I recall--no.
I'm sure there are plenty of people here who know a thing or two about philosophy and philosophers.I think you're just upset that we don't see everything as clearly as you think you yourself sees (hey, that's a palindrome) things.To be honest, my area isn't in philosophy completely. It's in analyzing and critiqueing(that's spelled wrong) works. Whether or not there history documents or essays by philosophers to the classics in literature. I am a thinker, and pretty good one at that too. Especially by being able to turn 1984 from just being anti communist but to also being anti-utilitarian. Blowing my own horn here, but I don't think too many have seen how it can be both, and my english teacher was definetly a little surprised by my analysis. Does this place really lack intelectuals? No.
You've got razd (the zen deist?), you've got robin (the nihilist), you've got Brian (the historian), you've got others.
what is missing, is an intelectual that agrees with you other than prophex.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

you didn't have my philosophy class. I took it as a junior/senior (it was split so that the first semester of the class was the last half of my junior year).we went over the material, then spent the next class session getting into discussions over it. did you ever manage to make it so that the sophists were right, and aristotle wrong? Once a week we had a test, and on the day the test was, we had to turn in a paper regarding what we've learned, and what we thought.More than anything, the class was about learning to think. That's what philosophy is--not just learning about other's works. We covered every major topic in philosophy, and I've written a paper for each one. Over thirty papers total, often going to two full pages, sometimes three. never did I go below an A on my papers.Your philosophy class may have been rotten, mine wasn't, even if it was at seven in the morning.Here's what I say you should do--don't read the others. They aren't important. Learn to think you own thoughts, learn to think critically, learn to think analytically. Come up with your own damn position, not just a rip from someone else.
what's my position? As close as I can tell, it's an idealist pragmatist that's cynical and skeptic. what's your's--the overdone "overthrow the system and trash the indoctrination"?and I really dislike people like you ()
people who think they are better than their dumbass elders. And for that matter--you and I may as well be the same fucking age. I'm 18.6 years old. you? We're from the same generation--and you don't know my experiences--so who are you to say that I should have done better than you? what if I was from a poor family, what if my home life was screwed up, what if I had to quit school to support my mom and brother, what if I didn't grow up in the best of neighborhoods? Just so you know, I am from a poor family--right on the poverty line. But I was fortunate in having a very good school system (for the area). I was able to take AP classes, as well as IB.
point is, don't hand down judgements on people when you don't know what they've gone through.sheez.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences