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Author
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Topic: The first 3 chapters of Genesis
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 211 of 307 (350792)
09-20-2006 7:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 210 by Percy
09-20-2006 6:28 PM
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Are you daft? No, Percy, I am not. The reason I started this thread in the first place was that Jar was setting forth this bizarre interpretation in another thread. In that thread, he said this:
Jar writes: God did not expell Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden because they ate from the Tree of Knowledge but because God feared that they would then eat from the Tree of Life and become (note the word become) immortal Over there, he was claiming that Adam and Eve couldn't have been punished for eating from the KGE because they didn't know the difference between right and wrong. Perhaps he's changed his tune on this thread.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 210 by Percy, posted 09-20-2006 6:28 PM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 240 by Percy, posted 09-21-2006 9:57 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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You are doing it yet again Robin.
Percy writes: One thing you can say for certain, God punished Adam and Eve for eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. to which Robin responded:
quote:
That was my main point in the OP. Jar has denied this.
Once again, please point out where I have said that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 213 of 307 (350794)
09-20-2006 7:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 212 by jar
09-20-2006 7:01 PM
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
Look at the the post right above you, Jar. I just quoted it. Here it is again:
Jar writes: God did not expell Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden because they ate from the Tree of Knowledge but because God feared that they would then eat from the Tree of Life and become (note the word become) immortal
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 212 by jar, posted 09-20-2006 7:01 PM | | jar has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
And then there's this:
Is it disobedience? Yes and no. Adam and Eve could not know that it is wrong to disobey God until after they had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They simply did not know right from wrong. From Gods perspective, He gave an order that was impossible to be obeyed.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 213 by robinrohan, posted 09-20-2006 7:04 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
The others can read the whole post at Message 207, your characterization of my position in Message 209. Robin you are simply manufacturing issues where they do not exist.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 216 of 307 (350800)
09-20-2006 7:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 215 by jar
09-20-2006 7:12 PM
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
And this
It does not matter if it is a command or not. Until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they had no means of knowing they should obey it. Ok, I will ask you then again: Why were Adam and Eve punished?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 215 by jar, posted 09-20-2006 7:12 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
See Message 207. In case your links don't work, here it is again:
I would answer that with a yes and no. They are punished and while being kept from the Tree of Lif is a result of their behavior, it is not part of the punishment. Here begineth a feeble attempt at elucidation. The story of the Garden of Eden is a poetic and metaphorical picture of relationships. God creates a world for all, particularly man. In the stories (and there are several indications that even here more than one version is included) God tells Adam that he can eat from any of the trees in the garden EXCEPT the tree of Knowledge. Adam, with the input of Eve, disobeys and eats from the Tree of Knowledge. Only then, once Adam and Eve gain the capability to tell right from wrong do they realize that they have done wrong, are naked and so remorseful. God punishes them for the disobedience and the specific punishments are detailed. God punishes Adam, Eve and the environment. God also punishes the serpent, not for the act itself, but for instigating their disobedience. God then show that He forgives Adam and Eve, by clothing them for their needs. He does not remove the punishment, but starts afresh. It is a classic parent child story, kid disobeys, is punished, but the parent continues to love and care for the child. Now we come to the part about the expulsion. God acknowledges that Man has become "like one of us, knowing Good from Evil". As a result of Man becoming more God-like, GOD sends them away from the Tree of Life and bars access to physical immortality forever. If you would like robin I will try to walk you through it step by step. Edited by jar, : add offer to step through the story with robin
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: 08-16-2006
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Message 218 of 307 (350802)
09-20-2006 7:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
09-20-2006 3:26 AM
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Re: Original Sin genetics
Faith: Original Sin itself is inherited spiritually, the propensity to sin; This newfound willingness to think beyond the literal is truly commendable, Faith. After insisting on physical immortality, literal expulsions, earthly rewards and factual events, you have at last found a place for the spiritual. Congratulations. But it doesn't help you to introduce the concept at this point. The consistency of your arguments so far has exposed THE TRUTH: All the evidence for a super-genome points to the presence in it of an Original Sin gene. That's not just talk. I can back it up. Produce your evidence for the super-genome. I'll show you the evidence for the gene. _ Edited by Archer Opterix, : Brevity. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo repair.
Archer All species are transitional.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 200 by Faith, posted 09-20-2006 3:26 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 219 of 307 (350804)
09-20-2006 7:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 217 by jar
09-20-2006 7:19 PM
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
Until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil they had no means of knowing they should obey it. Why would Adam and Eve be punished if they did not know it was wrong to disobey God?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 217 by jar, posted 09-20-2006 7:19 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
Why would Adam and Eve be punished if they did not know it was wrong to disobey God? A good question. If it was somthing that actually happened it would make God pretty mean and picayune. But it is a plot device. The story in Genesis of the Garden of Eden is one of relationships and a Just So story explaining why life is as it is.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4140 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
Why would Adam and Eve be punished if they did not know it was wrong to disobey God?
because its a story and they are needed to be for the rest of the events to work? really speculation is all we have for this, they may have explained it, but somehow it god taken out at a later point, the flow of the story kind of shows this anyway its a myth it doesn't have to make sense though
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 219 by robinrohan, posted 09-20-2006 7:26 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.5
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
robin writes: Ok, I will ask you then again: Why were Adam and Eve punished? Because that's why they were made.
God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’ --Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 216 by robinrohan, posted 09-20-2006 7:16 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 223 of 307 (350817)
09-20-2006 8:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 220 by jar
09-20-2006 7:36 PM
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
So, Jar, you are claiming that when God says this
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. that Adam does not recognize this as a threat?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 220 by jar, posted 09-20-2006 7:36 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 224 by kuresu, posted 09-20-2006 8:39 PM | | robinrohan has replied | | | Message 226 by jar, posted 09-20-2006 8:54 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2543 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: 03-24-2006
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
if you don't know what death is, how could that be a threat? and I'm right, there was no death before they were expelled from the garden of eden, they had no knowledge of it. I mean for crying out loud they didn't know they were buck naked (until they ate of the tree, and gained knowledge of good and bad). How could they even comprehend death?
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 225 of 307 (350823)
09-20-2006 8:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 224 by kuresu
09-20-2006 8:39 PM
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Re: You are doing it yet again Robin.
He wouldn't have to understand death to recognize it as something ominous. God's tone would tell him that. What, do you think he interpreted "death" as though it meant something good?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 224 by kuresu, posted 09-20-2006 8:39 PM | | kuresu has not replied |
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