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Author | Topic: egotheistic pantheism revealed... | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I am not saying they necessarily exclude reality. They implicitely claim to be reality. Only the fool confuses religion with reality. Edited by jar, : minus period Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
scottness writes:
The popular strain in the West (new age) doesn't necessarily say that all religions are right, but that all of them will lead to where the pantheists are You're really coming unplugged over this... I have heard it said to my face on at least 6 occasions from pantheists. One of them was from India and lives near me. The others are friends whom I grew up with that live certain lifestyles. Modulus helped out with the distinction in an earlier post. Go find it and get a grip.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Only the fool confuses religion with reality. You would know... ...the only distinction is the law of non-ontradiction that you find so shallow and inane and base and irrelevant and uneventful and the like. I really have to try harder than any man should to love you jar...
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5984 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
scottness writes: They implicitely claim to be reality. And this includes your religion, yes? So you are left with proving how you know YOUR religion is reality. The law of non-contradiction is beside the point. If you prove they are all wrong, or all right, or mutually exclusive, or whatever, you can't prove which is reality. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Please dissemble, or tell me my brain is fried? No, this takes all of me already. The onslaught is all that I can bear. Go back and read. Seriously, this is getting crazy!
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
OK so you have no reference to attribute this to. So you OP title should be
quote: With a subtitle: I don't know what I am saying you go figure it out, but nonetheless I have a really great come back.
scottness writes: You're really coming unplugged over this Yes since it is your central premise, yessssh. I quit.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5984 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
scottness writes: Go back and read. Seriously, this is getting crazy! But I did, and I have, and it is! It would be so much better if you would start with a simple belief statement. Do you include, or exclude, and if so why, and whom?
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
scottness writes:
Scottness: They implicitely claim to be reality. Anastasia:And this includes your religion, yes? So you are left with proving how you know YOUR religion is reality. The law of non-contradiction is beside the point. If you prove they are all wrong, or all right, or mutually exclusive, or whatever, you can't prove which is reality. That is why it is so hard to see Anastasia. Follow me... All religions imply that they are true. But if one understands that and comes right out and says it, then it understands itself. it hides nothing and is not attempting to manipulate. But if another claims 'implicitely' to be true, but avoids or tries to hide that, so as to appear to be maleable in moral terms, then we can recognize it as a deception. It must be consistent! No contradictions allowed. That is the best test of truth! Capish?
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
jar writes: Only the fool confuses religion with reality. to which Rob blathered...
You would know... ...the only distinction is the law of non-ontradiction that you find so shallow and inane and base and irrelevant and uneventful and the like. What? Why do you post these things that have nothing to do with the topic or even the post you are replying to? What are you blathering about? Of course I do not confuse my religion with reality. How many times must I post that Religions are just Maps, not the Territory. Again, only a fool confuses religion with Reality. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Do you include, or exclude, and if so why, and whom? Of course, I am a Buddhist! Are you helping? My brain is fried too so don't feel bad.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5984 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
scottness writes: All religions imply that they are true. But if one understands that and comes right out and says it, then it understands itself. it hides nothing and is not attempting to manipulate. You know I think your religion is closer to the truth than others, or at the very least it is my preferred path... How does one religion openly declaring itself to be true MAKE it true? How does a religion understand itself? It is just us trying to understand God. I really don't want to give you a hard time, just ignore me.
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5946 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
Jar writes: Only the fool confuses religion with reality.
scottness writes: You would know... ..the only distinction is the law of non-ontradiction that you find so shallow and inane and base and irrelevant and uneventful and the like. In another thread you mentioned one of your weakness was wasting time "throwing pearls before swine". Is this one of your pearls? A more fitting analogy might be flinging feces at the zoo visitors.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Well whatever jar... When I hear you talk about the map, it makes me think you are referencing Lewis with bad understanding. Theology is the map, reality is knowing God personally. And the latter is what the good news of the gosple is all about. That's why it's GOOD NEWS!
Otherwise, what would distinguish it from any other claim to fame? That has been lost in our sub-churches over and over again in history. Today is no exception! It devolves bakc into a religion like yours. Here is Lewis to make sense of the whole map thing:In a way I quite understand why some people are put off by Theology. I remember once when I had been giving a talk to the R.A.F., an old, hard-bitten officer got up and said, `I've no use for all that stuff. But, mind you, I'm a religious man too. I know there's a God. I've felt Him out alone in the desert at night: the tremendous mystery. And that's just why I don't believe all your neat little dogmas and formulas about Him. To anyone who's met the real thing they all seem so petty and pedantic and unreal !' (C.S. Lewis/ Mere Christianity / book iv/ chapter 23 segment... Making and Begetting)
Now in a sense I quite agreed with that man. I think he had probably had a real experience of God in the desert. And when he turned from that experience to the Christian creeds, I think he really was turning from something real to something less real. In the same way, if a man has once looked at the Atlantic from the beach, and then goes and looks at a map of the Atlantic, he also will be turning from something real to something less real: turning from real waves to a bit of coloured paper. But here comes the point. The map is admittedly only coloured paper, but there are two things you have to remember about it. In the first place, it is based on what hundreds and thousands of people have found out by sailing the real Atlantic. In that way it has behind it masses of experience just as real as the one you could have from the beach; only, while yours would be a single glimpse, the map fits all those different experiences together. In the second place, if you want to go anywhere, the map is absolutely necessary. As long as you are content with walks on the beach, your own glimpses are far more fun than looking at a map. But the map is going to be more use than walks on the beach if you want to get to America. Now, Theology is like the map. Merely learning and thinking about the Christian doctrines, if you stop there, is less real and less exciting than the sort of thing my friend got in the desert. Doctrines are not God: they are only a kind of map. But that map is based on the experience of hundreds of people who really were in touch with God-experiences compared with which any thrills or pious feelings you and I are likely to get on our own are very elementary and very confused. And secondly, if you want to get any further, you must use the map. You see, what happened to that man in the desert may have been real, and was certainly exciting, but nothing comes of it. It leads nowhere. There is nothing to do about it. In fact, that is just why a vague religion-all about feeling God in nature, and so on-is so attractive. It is all thrills and no work; like watching the waves from the beach. But you will not get to Newfoundland by studying the Atlantic that way, and you will not get eternal life by simply feeling the presence of God in flowers or music. Neither will you get anywhere by looking at maps without going to sea. Nor will you be very safe if you go to sea without a map. In other words, Theology is practical: especially now. In the old days, when there was less education and discussion, perhaps it was possible to get on with a very few simple ideas about God. But it is not so now. Everyone reads, everyone hears things discussed. Consequently, if you do not listen to Theology, that will not mean that you have no ideas about God. It will mean that you have a lot of wrong ones - bad, muddled, out-of-date ideas. For a great many of the ideas about God which are trotted out as novelties to-day are simply the ones which real Theologians tried centuries ago and rejected. To believe in the popular religion of modern England is retrogression - like believing the earth is flat.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
How does one religion openly declaring itself to be true MAKE it true? It doesn't... It just makes it consistent. A lack of consistency in that respect would tell us that it is false without having to study it all.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5880 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
In another thread you mentioned one of your weakness was wasting time "throwing pearls before swine". Which is why I have learned and am now ignoring your rants...
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