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Author Topic:   Evolution or Creation
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 301 (395652)
04-17-2007 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ICANT
04-15-2007 11:32 PM


Another False Dilemma
What benefit would it be for me to renounce God and creation and embrace Atheism and evolution?
For that matter what benefit is derived by anyone choosing Atheism and Evolution over God and Creation?
You should accept Evolution because it is a fact and truth. You should accept the Theory of Evolution tentatively because it is the only and best explanation of how Evolution happened.
No that has absolutely nothing to do with either renouncing God or becoming an atheist.
There is no need to renounce God, or even change a single one of your beliefs as you listed them.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ICANT, posted 04-15-2007 11:32 PM ICANT has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 301 (395802)
04-17-2007 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ICANT
04-17-2007 10:42 PM


Re: Re-Answers
What does Evolution have to offer? I know you say it is just change over time. But you also have to say man evolved from that first single cell of life. That means he does not have a Spirit.
Why?
Evolution offers truth.
You cannot believe in the total package of evolution and believe that God formed the first man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. (Genesis 2:7)
Nor can you believe that He made the second man in His image. (Genesis 1:27)
Of course. You need to understand that the tales in Genesis were meant to teach a theological lesson, not a science lesson.
Several times I have pointed you towards Christian sources that address your concerns.
Are the creation stories in Genesis, chapters 1 and 2, meant to convey how God originated the universe?
These majestic stories should not be understood as historical and scientific accounts of origins but as proclamations of basic theological truths about creation. “Creation” in Holy Scripture refers to and describes the relationship between God and all God’s wonderful works.
from the Catechism of Creation

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ICANT, posted 04-17-2007 10:42 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by ICANT, posted 04-17-2007 11:31 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 26 of 301 (395810)
04-17-2007 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by ICANT
04-17-2007 11:31 PM


Re: Re-Answers
I do not doubt that is what you believe.
You are the one who has to decide whether you want to continue to believe what has been shown to be totally false.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by ICANT, posted 04-17-2007 11:31 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ICANT, posted 04-18-2007 12:23 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 301 (395819)
04-18-2007 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by ICANT
04-18-2007 12:23 AM


Re: Re-Answers
Accepting the FACT of Evolution and that the Theory of Evolution is the best explanation so far on how Evolution happened has absolutely nothing to do with a belief in GOD.
You keep coming back to that.
Why?
As I have pointed out to you before, the two are unrelated. In the words of the Clergy Project Open Letter, signed by over 10,000 US Christian Clergy:
We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris.
I am certainly not saying you should give up your belief in God, and as a matter of fact, not one of the things you listed in the OP:
ICANT writes:
That God made me so I could choose to love and serve Him just because He is God.
That man has a sin nature he inherited from Adam.
God provided a sacrifice to pay my sin debt.
Jesus the only begotten Son of God was crucified that I might be saved.
That to go to heaven I must trust in That Sacrifice.
That if I do nothing I will spend eternity in the lake of fire.
That Christ was buried and arose 3 days later.
That 40 days later he ascended into Heaven to make intercession for me.
That Jesus is coming again.
That I will be judged according to how I have done on earth and will be rewarded accordingly.
That all who have not trusted Christ will stand at the Great White Throne judgment and confess Jesus is Lord.
That all whose names are not written in the Lambs Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
That there will be a new Heaven and Earth.
That there will be no more day or night as God will be the light.
That there will be a City, The New Jerusalem that has streets of Gold,where I will live with God for eternity.
is even distantly related to the issue of Evolution.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ICANT, posted 04-18-2007 12:23 AM ICANT has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 114 of 301 (396328)
04-19-2007 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by ICANT
04-19-2007 4:13 PM


Re: inconsistent with creationism
The Bible says God created everything out of the dust of the earth.
Not really. The Bible says that God created everything by a simple spoken word, REAL Magic, powerful juju. See Genesis 1.
If everything was made from the same elements wouldn't they be very similar.
Everything was made from the same elements and so everything is very similar.
crashfrog, I believe almost anything is possible. But I do not believe everything evolved from a single cell life form that no one knows where, how or why it appeared in a Universe that came from a infinitely small nothing that nobody knows where, how or why it came into existence.
So all you have is an argument from incredulity tied to powerful juju.
It is sad. GOD is actually so much greater than the little backyard tinkerer you present.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by ICANT, posted 04-19-2007 4:13 PM ICANT has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 120 of 301 (396344)
04-19-2007 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by ICANT
04-19-2007 5:12 PM


Re: But it is a Choice
I did not forget or overlook, as this did not take place in the original creation that took place in Genesis 1:1
In the op I point out there was an original creation and then the 7 days of Moses in Genesis 1:2 - Genesis 2:3.
If the recorded things God said and did in the day of Creation did not happen exactly as He said that day (all in one day) then God is a Liar, and none of the Bible is true.
Nonsense.
All it means is that the people that wrote those parts of the Bible were human, and the product of their era.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by ICANT, posted 04-19-2007 5:12 PM ICANT has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 213 of 301 (396981)
04-23-2007 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by ICANT
04-23-2007 5:32 PM


never giving God a thought.
I was not refering to people that already believed in God but people that were born after the hoax and was told it was the missing link therby believing in man evolving from nothing and never giving God a thought. Remember this hoax lasted 41 years. But like I said if there is no God it didn't make any difference.
But possible relevance can the hoax have?
There are literally millions of missing links, man evolved from some primitive critter, likely single celled.
What does that have to do with GOD?
Evolution is a fact. Denying that Evolution is a fact and that the Theory of Evolution is the best explanation to date for Evolution is an just silly. In the words of the Clergy Project:
To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children.
Evolution is TRUTH.
Biblical Creationism is a LIE!
Again, from the Clergy Project:
We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator.
By supporting Biblical Creationism you are rejecting the will of GOD.
Again:
To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris.
You are placing a limit on GOD, instead of worshiping GOD, you are creating a God in YOUR image.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by ICANT, posted 04-23-2007 5:32 PM ICANT has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 277 of 301 (397369)
04-25-2007 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by iceage
04-25-2007 4:26 PM


Re: Everything Is A Choice
Actually, if you read all of that section in Matthew 25, it basically says that Christians are the Goats, and others (likely Atheists, certainly non-followers of Jesus) will be the Sheep.
See Message 1 for a thread with a long discussion of that very passage.
Christians who think they are saved will very likely get a big surprise when they do get judged. Gonna be a long line of "Born Again" rejects.
They just don't get it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by iceage, posted 04-25-2007 4:26 PM iceage has not replied

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