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Author
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Topic: Why did God forgive our sins?
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 175 of 479 (491880)
12-23-2008 11:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 170 by jaywill
08-22-2008 10:51 PM
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Re purpose
Hi jay,
jaywill writes: Since sin causes brings in separation from God sin had to be dealt with. The separation had to be dealt with so that it would be removed. I thought the whole purpose of man having the choice to obey or not to obey is what the whole thing was all about. We all have a choice today because the first man had a choice and he exercised his choice to disobey a direct order of God. This act separated man and God. Jesus provided a way man could be restored to fellowship with God. Every person that reaches the ability to choose between good and evil will make a choice. They will either choose to accept God's way or they will choose to refuse God's way and try to make their own way and rules. In other words man can do things God's way. or Man can do things his way. God's way equals eternal bliss. Man's way equals eternal death in the lake of fire. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 170 by jaywill, posted 08-22-2008 10:51 PM | | jaywill has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 178 of 479 (491888)
12-23-2008 3:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 176 by Agobot
12-23-2008 12:34 PM
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Re sinless
Hi Agobot,
Agobot writes: But why did God create such a flawed Adam that would choose to do stupid things like eating from the forbidden tree? So you could argue with me as to why He did it. Had He made the first man with no choice that man would still be in the garden walking and talking with God. You and I would not exist. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 176 by Agobot, posted 12-23-2008 12:34 PM | | Agobot has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re sinless
Hi caldron68,
caldron68 writes: Read what I wrote. God did create the sinless man, but only in a manner that guarantees that the vast majority of men, in fact all men, will not remain sinless. Yes all are sinners because of the sin on the first man. So what? God fixed that problem all you have to do is accept His full pardon.
caldron68 writes: God's ultimate goal is to create the sinless man, Thanks for that information, but what is that based on? I been studying God for 62 years and I have never read where God gave His ultimate goal. I do know one goal that God has, Peter summed it up this way.
2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. God desires for all men to place their faith in Him and spend eternity with Him. But He left it up to man to choose whether he wanted to.
caldron68 writes: Hold it, either we have free will or we don't. Actually you don't have free will. The first man made the first choice for you. You can only choose to go to heaven if you so desire.
caldron68 writes: A system that promises to create more misery than joy.
You are assuming the devil wins and there will be more in the lake of fire with him than in heaven with God. I doubt that with the abortion rate what it is today 88 per minute. God gets all those. Then you add all those that abort naturally. God gets all those too. Then you include the millions of infants and small children who have not come to know good and evil yet who are starving to death every minute. God gets all those also. I got the feeling there will be more in heaven than the lake of fire.
caldron68 writes: Then God is not omniscient and thus not God! He created the system knowing full well what the outcome would be. More misery than joy. God counted the cost before He created man. He viewed the end and the beginning at the same time just as He does today. We are creatures of time and space God is not. With Him there is only one great big now. He knows the outcome of the experiment. caldron68 you asserted 4 times in message 177 that, "there will be more misery than joy". Do you have something to base that assertion on? Or is that just your personal belief? Or are you just bringing a railing accusation against God?
caldron68 writes: Trust must be earned. Tell the airline pilot that the next time you get on an airplane. Because when you step on that plane your life is in his hands and the aircraft. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 177 by caldron68, posted 12-23-2008 2:34 PM | | caldron68 has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re sinless
Hi caldron68,
caldron68 writes: Are you God's personal spokes person here on Earth? For the past 46 years I have been one of His spokesmen. You do know blue on blue is hard to read, don't you? Now lets get into a little theology.
caldron68 writes: Luke 12:32 Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. Why did you not explain what the scripture was talking about rather than to cherry pick a verse that you thought backed up your assertion.
Jesus writes: 12:22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. 12:23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. 12:24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? 12:26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest? 12:27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? 12:29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. 12:30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. In verse 22-32 Jesus addresses his disciples which just prior to pentecost numbered 120. Jesus is speaking to His Church and yes it is a small group because the requirements to be a member are pretty strict. It takes a lot more to get in this group than it does to get into heaven. All you have to do to go to heaven is be born again. To be in The Lord's Church you have to meet His requirements. This verse of scripture does not say there will be a small number in heaven.
caldron68 writes: Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. The JW'S used this number until their membership grew past it then they had to modify. We are told a little more about this 144,000 in:
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. It seems there was 12,000 from each tribe of Israel tht were singled out for a special reason.
caldron68 writes: Matt 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14]But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Yes there is only one way to heaven and that entrance is very small.
Jesus writes: John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. That does kind of narrow it down now doesn't it.
caldron68 writes: Matt 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22]Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' [23]Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Yes, a lot of people claim to be a Christian. But they have never been born again. This just limits who will be in heaven not the number.
caldron68 writes: Matt 22:14"For many are invited, but few are chosen." Yes everyone is invited but not all will accept the invitation to be born again.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Whosoever. That means anybody including you. That does not limit the number in heaven.
caldron68 writes: Luke 13:23-24, 23Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, 24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Yes, many will not be able. In fact all those who will not receive Jesus Christ as their personal saviour will not be allowed in heaven. But that does not limit the number that will receive Jesus and go to heaven.
caldron68 writes: Need any more passages from the Bible ICANT? Since you have not produced one that backs up your assertion, yes I need some to back up your assertion. While you are at it maybe you can explain:
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; A great multitude that no man could number. Sounds like quite a few in heaven to me.
caldron68 writes: I trust the airlines and the airline pilot because they have a stunning track record of success. I am sure that the thousands who have lost loved ones in plane crashes would not agree with you. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by caldron68, posted 12-23-2008 7:40 PM | | caldron68 has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 190 of 479 (491975)
12-24-2008 11:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 188 by Agobot
12-24-2008 5:27 PM
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Re sinless
Hi Agobot,
Agobot writes: I think heaven would be devoid of people as we are all sinners, but let's keep this aside. True if there was no remedy for the problem of sin. "GoodNews" There is a remedy.
Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Agobot the only difference in a saved sinner and a lost sinner is the blood of Jesus Christ. We are all sinners, none worthy of or deserving forgiveness. That is why God provided His grace for us.
Agobot writes: How would heaven feel if you didn't find all of your relatives there? Worse than the lake of fire. But worse than that is The Great White Throne Judgment. Where all the lost will be judged. I will see everyone that I have talked to in my lifetime. Even those I never mentioned Christ too. There will be many in that day that will point a finger at me and say why didn't you tell me about Jesus and His saving power. There will be those who will say why didn't you bug me about being saved just one more time. The line will be endless and my pain will be great. I will see my friends and family members who never trusted Christ for salvation cast into the lake of fire. That will be a terrible day for me. That is why God will wipe away all the tears from my eyes.
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. In other words God has to blot out all the bad memories, or heaven would be a place of misery. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 188 by Agobot, posted 12-24-2008 5:27 PM | | Agobot has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 191 of 479 (491976)
12-25-2008 12:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 185 by caldron68
12-24-2008 1:59 PM
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Re sinless
Hi caldron68, Well at least we are down to one scripture as you did not provide any more as I asked.
caldron writes: Yes I have. Here it is again: Matt 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [14]But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. The key here is the last few words and only a few find it. I really didn't know anyone was looking for the narrow gate, and narrow way. I thought everyone was looking for their own way since everybody has the knowledge of good and evil. I do find a lot of people that are shown where the gate is they gladly walk through it. The Bible teaches something about this. Paul writing to the people at Rome said:
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. That sounds like Paul thought the entire lost world was seeking the narrow way doesn't it? I don't think so. Verse 13 Whosoever shall call. Verse 14 But if they have not believed how can they call? They must first hear the Word of God. How can they hear without a preacher? Verse 17 Faith cometh by hearing the Word of God. Man has to listen to God. But most today have shut their minds to God's Word.
caldron68 writes: The key here is the last few words and only a few find it. In all fairness I do find one man in the Bible who was searching for the narrow way.
8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The man of Ethiopia was truly seeking the narrow way and God sent a man to explain what he was trying to understand. This man admitted he did not understand what he was reading. He said he needed someone to show him the way.
caldron68 writes: So, you tell me (or show me, for that matter) where it is written that there will be far MORE people in Heaven than there will be in Hell. Can you? Don't just tear apart the little passages that I have provided and try to deflect the issue. The verse of scriture you quoted says the way is narrow and few there be that find it. I agree. I also know that a lot will be shown the way by others who know where the gate is. Trying to find that gate by oneself is like trying to find the needle in the haystack. Kinda hard. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 185 by caldron68, posted 12-24-2008 1:59 PM | | caldron68 has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 194 of 479 (492002)
12-25-2008 3:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 192 by Agobot
12-25-2008 5:56 AM
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Re sinless
Hi Agobot,
Agobot writes: This doesn't sound right. If that were the case, i'd rather burn in hell with all my loved ones. Right or wrong that is the way it is according to the Bible. Now as far as being in hell with all your loved ones goes, do you think you will get to see anybody in hell or know that somebody is in hell. I find no scripture to that effect. As I understand it being in the lake of fire will be like being in the hole in prison. Except no one will ever come and serve you bread and water. In heaven we will know everyone by name and we will not miss anyone that we have known on earth that is not there.
Agobot writes: BTW how does the bible explain the obvious paradox that we were created by god at some point, but since then we become immortal and timeless Good question. The man in Genesis 1:26-27 was created in the image of God. God is an eternal being. Therefore since we are created in His image we are eternal beings. But to answer how could we be created and be eternal. Everything is eternal. No thing has ever had a beginning, everything has always been here. It was just arranged differently than it is now. I had a Hebrew teacher back in the 60's who explained it this way. In the realm or sphere of the beginnings God literally tore from Himself everything that exists today. Yet today everything exists within God as He is everywhere.
Acts writes: 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. In Him we live, move and have our being.
Colossians writes: 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Everything has it's existence in, by and through God. My definition of God. God is everything that ever was, is, or ever will be in whatever form He chooses for it to be. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 192 by Agobot, posted 12-25-2008 5:56 AM | | Agobot has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 468 by Aussie, posted 12-11-2017 10:05 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re sinless
Hi DA,
DevilsAdvocate writes: This is outright disgusting and selfish. Is it selfish of me to tell you that you have the same opportunity to go to heaven as I do. All you have to do is be born again. That is the only choice you have. It is up to you. Choose you this day whom you will serve.
DevilsAdvocate writes: Your statement, ICANT, is probably the most self-centered, disgusting and morally repugnant remarks I have ever heard. That is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I admit I am just a wreched sinner undeserving of God's love. But at least I am a born again sinner. If you think the comments I have made here are repugnant you should come and hear me preach sometime. I talk about how unthankful, unholy and ungodly we are. None of us deserving the grace of God. Everyone of us ought to have to go to the lake of fire. But I don't have to deserve to go to heaven. All I have to do is be washed in the blood of the lamb. BTW you may have professed to be a christian but from your language and message you have never been Christ Like. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re sinless
Hi Bertot,
Bertot writes: Nor do I believe God will remove free will from us in heaven, Your understanding of free will and mine must be different. Man is born with the ability to choose to trust in God. He has free will to do that or reject to do so. Once the free will is exercised and a person is born again there is no more free will to exercise. You can no more choose to get unborn from being a child of God as you can in being unborn from your earthly parents.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. Jesus says he gives us eternal life and we can never perish. You could not jump out of God's hand if you wanted to. But who would want too. He did say my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow Me. There are those who profess to have eternal life and then there are those who posess eternal life.
Bertot writes: While I do not agree mans mind will be erased and this may not be what Dr. ICANT is saying, Yes as usual caldron68 is confused. I said God would have to wipe away all the bad memories or Heaven would be full of misery. You are correct God will not erase our memory. I will even know who you are when I meet you in Heaven.
Bertot writes: Being perfect in a biblical sense does not mean that we do not have sin. It means that that perfection is obtainable, even presently in the blood and sacrifice of Christ. When a person is born again the spirit is made perfect and is sealed by the Holy Spirit. When Jesus returns we will receive a body like He has got. A perfect one. When we have learned everything there is for us to know to prepare us to meet God in the New Jerusalem when He comes down and lives with us, God will wipe away anything that would hinder us in fulfilling His purpose.
Bertot writes: Your only problem is I think he has more that one problem concerning what the Bible says. At present there are 88 abortions performed every minute. There are 30 children that die of starvation every minute. This 118 who go out into eternity do not have to find the narrow way or the straight gate. The current world death rate is 104.1666 per minute. If you take away the 30 children who die of starvation you have 74.1 So if 100% of the 74.1666 go to the lake of fire. God gets 118 per minute. The devil gets 74.1666 per minute. Now if you knew the number of natural abortions that happen every minute you would probably have at least 100 a minute. That would give you 318 that do not have to find the narrow way. The math says there will be more in Heaven whether any adults make it or not. Regardless of what caldron68 says. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 223 of 479 (492247)
12-29-2008 3:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 211 by caldron68
12-28-2008 10:21 AM
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Re: Perfect
Hi caldron68,
caldron68 writes: In short, in order for your stay in heaven to not be miserable, God will only have to erase some of your memory. That is correct, all the bad memories. In other words the knowledge of evil.
caldron68 writes: I thought we were perfect. Yes the natural man does tend to think that.
Eccleasiates 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. We are far from perfect in God's view. The first man formed in Geneses 2:7 was perfect.
caldron68 writes: This is central to the point that I have made. God will have to modify man in order for man to fulfill his purpose. Yes man in his natural state can not fulfill God's purpose. God begins a work when man receives Christ as personal savior, by making the spirit perfect. God provides a perfect body to house the spirit and mind at the resurrection. God provides man with a perfect mind when He removes the knowledge of evil.
caldron68 writes: I guess it's OK to refute the Bible when it suits your needs, right ICANT? Can you please quote the scripture that says that there will be more people in Heaven than there will be in hell? I have already shown you the scripture that says that few will find their way to heaven. It would help a lot if you knew what you were talking about. Nowhere is the word heaven mentioned in Matthew 7:14.
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Neither is hell mentioned in Matthew 7:13.
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Lets do a little Bible study. Who is doing the speaking in these verses? Jesus.
Matthew 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: Who is He speaking to? His disciples. What is He speaking to His disciples about? If you read chapters 5, 6, and 7 you find Jesus is teaching His disciples about how they are to conduct themselves in the world. How they are to deal with their brothers and others. Also the reason they should do certain things. When He gets to 7:14 He is still speaking to His disciples. He is not speaking to lost, unsaved people. He is speaking to born again scripturally baptized believers in Him. He even warns the disciples of false prophets in the very next verse.
7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Let me provide the definition of the Greek Word life that is used in verse 14. = the absolute fulness of life. It would need in front of it to convey the meaning of eternal, everlasting (never ending) life. I would say Paul and Peter found that fulness of life and others that gave their lives for the cause of Christ. I would say today there are very, very few that find the narrow way.
caldron68 writes: Except that your math is completely wrong. Your assumption here is that the abortion rate is higher than the birth rate! Not to mention that if those 30 children out of the 104 per second are of age and have not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior (Muslim, Hindu, etc.....) they are not going to heaven either. It makes no difference who their parents are or what their parents believe. The 30 I used that starve to death are 6 and under so they would not have reached the point where they knew good and evil as the first man in the garden did when he ate the fruit. So any way you try to slice the numbers they say that: God gets 104 every minute. The devil could get a max of 74.666 per minute. The amount of births has nothing to do with the numbers. The death rate is 100%. Everybody dies. Regardless of number born they will eventually die.
caldron68 writes: The Bible says that many will go to hell and that few will pass through the narrow gate into heaven. Please produce a verse of scripture in the Bible that makes this statement. or Retract it. I would like to thank you for pressing your issue and making me go back and study what the Bible actually says. We humans do get in a rut now and then. So thanks. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 211 by caldron68, posted 12-28-2008 10:21 AM | | caldron68 has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 225 of 479 (492250)
12-29-2008 4:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 212 by caldron68
12-28-2008 12:26 PM
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Re sinless
Hi caldron68,
caldron68 writes: In a previous thread ICANT painted a picture of himself in Heaven. He was there viewing a long line of the people that would not be making it into heaven that day. Where did I say anything about being in Heaven?
caldron68 writes: Unfortunately, the line that ICANT was standing in also included those that had committed real crimes. Murder, rape, incest, genocide, you name it. As long as those people believed in Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, they got a free pass into Heaven. Does this sound fair to you? What perspective could we possible gain that would resolve this obvious bias? Where did I say anything about standing in a line? If I remember correctly I said I saw myself standing at the Great White Throne judgment and would see those of my friends, loved ones, co-workers, and people I had met day by day and never told them about Jesus. That I would see them cast into the lake of fire and this would make me very miserable. Now if this is not correct please reference the message you are pulling your information from.
caldron68 writes: Why not just leave it to freewill? He did leave it entirely up to the individual. You choose to believe whatever you desire. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 212 by caldron68, posted 12-28-2008 12:26 PM | | caldron68 has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 227 of 479 (492252)
12-29-2008 4:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 221 by onifre
12-29-2008 3:47 PM
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Re sinless
Hi oni,
onifre writes: Then neither is the interpretations of MEN that God is good or possesses any goodness to begin with. God has never stated this, this has been people of faiths assertion. Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Well Jesus said God was good. I will accept His word over yours. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 221 by onifre, posted 12-29-2008 3:47 PM | | onifre has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 229 of 479 (492254)
12-29-2008 4:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 222 by onifre
12-29-2008 3:49 PM
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Re degenerate
Hi oni,
onifre writes: Then why does He let our cells degenerate, naturally, in all species...? It seems there is a thing called sin that came into the world when the first man disobeyed God's direct command. By that sin death entered into the world. Every living plant, animal, fish, fowl and man must die. But man was made in the image of God. He has a flesh body that must die because of sin but he has a spirit and mind that will never die. The spirit and mind will receive an everlasting body at the resurrection. That body, mind and spirit will spend eternity somewhere. There is only two places that can be. In heaven with God or in the lake of fire with the devil. It is man's choice. You can choose to go to heaven or you can refuse to choose to go to heaven. That is the only choice you have. God chose to forgive you your sins if you would trust in His only begoten Son. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 222 by onifre, posted 12-29-2008 3:49 PM | | onifre has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 231 by onifre, posted 12-29-2008 4:56 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re sinless
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: Is misery possible in heaven.......? That is a loaded question. My first instinct was to say no. But upon further review I wonder if there could not be pain there now. I do not think there will be any there when we have the new heaven and earth spoken of in Revelation. But I am sure I pain Jesus every time I disobey him just like my sons even though they are 49 and 51 pain me today when they do things contrary to what I taught them to do.
Straggler writes: Some might think that watching passively and powerlessly as ones loved ones are consigned to eternal damnation in a lake of fire is in itself a form of hell. At the Great White Throne Judgment they will point a finger at me and ask me Why I did not be a better example? Why I did not tell them one more time about Jesus? Some will even say you met me day by day and knew I was astray but you never mentioned Him to me. I can only imagine what that will be like. But at that time I will have known for at least 1000 years those of my loved ones and friends that would be cast into the lake of fire. If I don't see them participating in the 1000 year reign of Christ I will know their destiny. That alone should motivate so called christians to become Christ Like and let their life so shine as to cause others to accept Christ as their personal savior. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 226 by Straggler, posted 12-29-2008 4:18 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 235 of 479 (492265)
12-29-2008 5:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 231 by onifre
12-29-2008 4:56 PM
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Re degenerate
Hi oni,
onifre writes: Based off of fossil records, things perished long before the homo genus ever appeared, right? According to our current knowledge that would be a correct assumption. But answer me this question. What fossils would you expect to find on the earth that may have been placed there a few trillion years ago? I know you say the earth is only a few billion years old. Correction, the earth has always existed in some form. Genesis 1:1 says: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Just when was the beginning? A few 1000 years ago? A few billion years ago? A few trillion years ago? A number so big you could not write it in your lifetime. Just when was the beginning? When science comes up with the answer to what was prior to T=0 we may begin to find some answers to when the beginning was.
onifre writes: Plants and animals were dying LONG before man enters the picture ICANT. Maybe according to your Bible but not mine. According to my Bible man was here the day the universe and earth was created. Man was the first creation on earth.
onifre writes: Not to nit pick but, where does the devil get the chemical compounds for fire...?  Does the devil have an endless supply of oxygen in the spiritual world...? You must be refering to the fellow that is depicted on a lye can. The guy with a long tail red suit and a pitchfork in his hand. Well he is going to be inside of the lake of fire therefore he will not be able to stoke the fire. But yes God has an endless supply of whatever is needed. He is everything that ever was, is or will be.
onifre writes: I have yet to meet His son, I've only been told about His son by people, who I don't trust, and in books written by men, who I don't know or trust. Seems like God has placed more faith in mans ability to write and spread the word than man has placed in God to begin with. You ever thought God may have had a little part in what was written? Anyway I am sorry you feel as you do. But don't blame God for your feelings.
onifre writes: Doesn't God know He is trusting a species born into sin and prone to lying...? What makes you think God trusts anybody especially when He know what we did until our dying day?
onifre writes: Perhaps a better representative is needed...maybe a trusting unicorn...? (sorry I'm a comic ) I'm glad you think so. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 231 by onifre, posted 12-29-2008 4:56 PM | | onifre has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 239 by onifre, posted 12-29-2008 6:29 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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