'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible

You're still doing it Jay. You're bouncing around giving scripture which does NOT deal with the issues at hand.Nearly every single point you raise is a strawman argument or out of context.I present scritpure to show the end times were to occur during their lifetime.Jay, please.....give me one verse that shows the end times are far off. Just one. I keep asking.....yet you have yet to give one.Do you admit that every word used, that I have shown, denotes a short period of time?Does "near" mean "far"?
Does "at hand" mean "far away"?
Does "last days" mean "two thousands years later"?
Does "soon" mean "much, much later"?Does Jesus admit that when he returns he will being angels with him?
Does Jesus admit he will reward mankind when he returns?
Does Jesus state he is coming on clouds?In Matthew 24 who is Jesus addressing?I want honest answers Jay. Prove to me the words used to denote short periods of time really mean long periods.Show me how "you" when facing and addressing his disciples means those people today.Show me when Jesus states "you' to his disciples and says they will witness the a cataclysmic events it does not refer to them or that the "event" is not the end times.Show me who is suppose to run to the moutains and flee Judea.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Heretic continues:Jay, I quickly read over all your latest posts. All follow the same format. You twist the meanings of words, I have backed up all my assertions. No word used by Jesus or the authors denotes a long period of time. The mere fact you keep stating that the words used by the authors do in fact show long periods of time shows you are twisting the meanings.I keep asking for a word that shows a long period of time. So far, nothing.The word "near" is used to explain how far off the end times are.
You have twisted it to mean far off.The word "soon" is used to explain how far off the end times are.
You have twisted it to mean not soon.I could keep going. EVERY single word used denotes a short period. Prove me wrong.I have asked you before to do so, you have yet to. Why? Simple. There does not exist a single word when refering to the end times that they are far off in the future. Not one.------------------------------------------------------------------------------you ignore context and you create so many moot points....it makes your posts needlessly long. My previous post I must have given at least 6 or more examples of you bringing to the table long comments with lenghty scripture, which have nothing to do with the debate. Thats only in your last post. I have mentioned this nearly every post.
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Only an apologist can take "near" to mean far. "Close by" to mean far off. "Around the corner" to mean many blocks away. So let me understand this. I gave you probably more than 15 verses which denote short periods of time and you ignore every one except the one I made a mistake on. "Around the corner" is actually taken from the few Christians sites I frequented. Its not in scripture, so you are correct. My apologies. Those sites mentioned how the end times are "right around the corner" and when I was responding, I put it in. Again, my bad. But it changes nothing. I have given over 15 so far.I can give you some more though, on top of the many I have already given:Romans 13:11-12 "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand..."Again, this clearly shows its not 2000 years in the future.James 5:8 "Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."Ditto.I John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."Wow. The LAST TIME.Do you need more?----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again you're preaching Jay. When did I announce to anyone I was spreading heresy? I have twisted nothing. You cannot even give me one example where I distorted scripture. Not one. I have backed up everything with evidence. You have yet to give any evidence. You're ignoring the context AGAIN. [I]n the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth compacted out of water and amidst water, by the word of God; by which means the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens that now are, and the earth, by the same word have been stored up for fire, being reserved against the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you- ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief... (emp. added).
John C. Whitcomb observed:Note carefully that the verse does not say that God’s days last thousands of years, but that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years. In other words, God is completely above the limitations of time in the sense that he can accomplish in one literal day what nature or man could not accomplish in thousands of years, if ever. Note that one day is as a thousand years, not is a thousand years, with God. If one day in this verse means a long period of time, then we would end up with the following absurdity: a long period of time is with the Lord as a thousand years. Instead of this, the verse reveals how much God can accomplish in a 24-hour day, and thus sheds much light upon the events of Creation Week (1975, 36:68, emp. in orig.).How I Would Prove to a Jury that the Bible is True - Apologetics Press
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a strawman argument. This verse states nothing about a time frame, just that Jesus will eventually arrive.Again, we are debating a time frame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You keep bringing up Peter, yet you fail to understand that Peter also states the end times were near!I Peter 4:7 "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."1 Peter 1:20 20He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.Peter also believed the end times were upon them.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jay, your logic is appalling. Of course we havent seen them! Its a false prophecy! Hence our debate. You're basically stating since X did not occur, therefore it must mean it will occur in the future, which means the prophecy is true.No. First, we have to know when was X to occur. Who is Jesus talking to? His disciples. Not you. Not me. How do we know this? Bc Jesus states this! "So when YOU....."Of course you skipped over the main parts, but that is par for the course with you.4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.Jesus is speaking to his disciples Jay. Not you. Context.9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.Still referring to his disciples.10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.At what time will the false prophets appear? When his disciples are handed over. When the famines and earthquakes take place. When his disciples are put to death.
15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniellet the reader understand 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house.Who is to witness the abomination? You? No. The disciples.18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until nowand never to be equaled again.Here is the kicker. This distress Jesus has spoken of.....will be UNEQUALED and NEVER equaled again. Obviously, Jesus is referring to the end times!! His disciples will be a part of all this!22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the electif that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.Jesus states false Christs will appear! To who? His disciples!26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.Who is the "you'? The disciples.29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky,IMMEDIATELY after all those events in which the disciples will be part of......the son of man will appear!----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't fail to address any scripture. I added "around the corner" by accident. As for "soon":Revelation 22: 12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, taken of of context.Matthew 24:6 naturally refers to the beginning not the end bc Jesus goes on in the rest of the chapter to describe what happens after that!Verse 13 states nothing to back up your case. All it states is that there will be an end. The rest of the chapter gives the "when".

Sure you're done with me Jay. The reason is I asked you repeatedly to provide evidence for your claims. You could not provide a single verse that states any of the words that denote a recent time frame for his return as meaning "far off". Not one.
Every single author you provided stated the exact same thing. The end times were during their generation. Every word they used to describe how far off.....was a word that means "soon".I also stated that you jump around using scripture which has nothing to do with the authors we are discussing. Ramoss has now also stated the exact same thing. I have also stated quite a few times you create strawman arguments. Which is exactly what you are doing now.I do not think you understand what a strawman argument is.The debate is if the authors made the claim that Jesus would return during their generation. You even shorted in to just Matthew 24. Fine.But.................You have changed the debate to an exact number given, then you're asking questions to that inquirey. Once someone states they do not have an exact number given by Jesus in Matthew 24, you'll claim then that the gospels then do not give a time frame for the return of Jesus.Problem......Thats not the debate. The debate is not if Jesus gave an exact, pinpoint time frame right down to the year.The debate is if Jesus would return during their lifetime or soon thereafter...............or two thousand years later.

Comtemporaries of Jesus. All those alive during the life of Jesus until their death.

Comtemporaries of Jesus. All those alive during the life of Jesus until their death. Actually there are quite a few parameters. You ignored every one of them. Thats actually a great explanation. Except for one "small" problem.You're ignoring the ENTIRE context again.34I tell you the truth, THIS generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."This" refers back to the story Jesus is previously telling. What do we know prior to verse 34?1) Disciples will hear of rumors and wars.
2) Nations against nations.
3) Earthquakes.Once that occurs, ths following will happen.4) Disciples will be persecuted.
5) Many will turn away from their faith.
6) False prophets will appear.
7) Increase of wickedness.All this Jesus states will occur during the lifetime of the disciples.Now remember, his followers asked WHEN the end times will occur. Jesus is giving a play by play.It makes no sense to tell his disciples this will occur during their lifetime, that its the end times...if its not to occur for 2000 more years.8) His disciples will see the desolation.
9) People who are in Judea should flee to the mountains.
10) No one should go back for their belongings.
11) It will be horrible for those pregnant.
12) This calamity will be worse than ANYTHING in the past.Jay, this is the end times Jesus is describing. His disciples are part of it. All of it. They will be witness to this event that will be worse than any event preceding it.13) People will claim to be false Christs.Jesus proceeds to tell his disciples that he has warned them!Why would Jesus warn them if its to occur 2000 years later?14) IMMEDIATELY after all this, the sun will be darkened.
15) The moon will not give off her light.
16) Stars will fall from they sky (Jesus wasnt very good at astronomy)
17) Heavenly bodies will shake.
18) AT THAT TIME JESUS WILL RETURN.After everything the disciples will witness, IMMEDIATELY:Jesus will return.So what do we know. ALL of this will occur during his disciples lifetime.So then:33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."THIS generation" logically refers to what Jesus has described. Who is to see ALL these things? His disciples!But wait, there is more! Jesus is still talking to his disciples:42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.Who is to keep watch? His disciples! Who is to be ready? His disciples!

Hello again Jay.You're doing the exact same thing you've done since our debate started. You're taking scripture out of context. You throw in scripture which by itself can have a vague meaning and applying it as you see fit to adhere to your beliefs. Delay can mean from one second to thousands of years. So you have to take into context what is being referred to. You did admit the parable refers to his disciples.If Jesus was stating he would return a year after his death, there would be a delay of one year.If Jesus was stating he would return 5 years after his death, there would be a delay of five years.So you're point is a moot one. Any time frame before Jesus returns is a delay. So by analyzing the scripture before and after his parable, can we get an idea of what he means by "delay"?100%.Matthew 24: 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,f but only the Father.Jesus makes it quite clear the exact day and hour are not know, but that he will return in the future.Matthew 24: 42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.Again Jesus makes this quite clear. There will be a delay.Matthew 24: 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.Jesus tells the DISCIPLES to keep watch, Jesus will return when you do not expect him. So now we have the context of the delay. Jesus is telling his disciples to keep watch. Not you Jay, his disciples.Jesus will not return right away after his death. Jesus makes this quite clear by stating it will be after the desolation. There are also many other signs after this that will occur. So there is a delay. Hence the parable.Now the parable starts with: 1"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.What time? This refers back to Matthew 24. Remember, there wasn't any chapters. Also remember, its one long its discourse.The parable refers Jesus returning while some were prepared and other who were not. By then, those who were not prepared, it was too late.Matthew 24:37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.See Jay. The parable refers back to this story. Those who were prepared, those who were not.How does the parable end?Matthew 25: 13"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.Which refers back to Matthew 24 in which Jesus tells his disciples to keep watch. The parable, which you also admitted refers back to his disciples. Of course it does. Jesus has never stopped talking to his disciples. Jesus has stated quite a few times the end times would occur during their lifetime.You're trying to use the word "delay" to mean it must occur thousands of years later. Sorry Jay, delay in itself can mean any time frame. So you have to see how its being used in context.The time frame in the parable states nothing of thousands of years. Using it in context, it refers back to Matthew 24 which refers to the disciples. In fact, in the parable Jesus leaves and returns to his disciples! Matthew 24 gives quite a few parameters. Which are the signs. Each sign points to a specific timeline, which is during the lives of the disciples.As for the word generation, I used a definition of the word. You instead, obliterated the actually defintion and changed it to suit your beliefs. Yes, by that it means everyone ALIVE during his speech. Those would be his contemporaries at that time. Here is where you twisted the definition of the word. If A is "this generation", then you're saying if A has a child "B' would be part of "this generation". Well, if B has a kid, then since B was part of "this generation" then now C is also part of "this generation". In fact, every single child born throughout history then, would be "this generation". That's not what I stated, nor is that the definition of what a generation is.From the youngest to the oldest, that generation would be "this generation" that Jesus refers to.How do we know what "this generation" is? Simple. Read what Matthew 24 states. The entire chapter has Jesus stating his disciples would witness each sign. Jesus then adds these signs will be during "this generation". You're doing as you always do. You're taking out of context, and ignoring key words.You're focused on the word "generation". Well, it has many meanings. So what meaning is being used?
Context. By adding "this" it refers back to what Jesus stated prior.Jesus states step by step what the signs are...and tells his disciples that THEY will witness these signs.You've ignored all these points....and focused on "this generation".Put aside your personal beliefs for one second if possible. Be honest here. If the end times were to occur thousands of years AFTER their death, why would Jesus give them the signs? Why would he tell his disciples the sun will be darkened, that they will witness a calamity like no other EVER in the history of the world. If these are the signs of the end times which are to occur two thousand years plus later, why does Jesus tell his disciples THEY would witness all this?------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree. But you're missing the point. Regardless if its 34 AD or today, the words still would apply. There is no time frame involved with those words at all. None. So again, this is another moot point.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But you're ignoring the key points. His disciples ASK Jesus for the signs. Jesus then tells them the signs. How absurd for Jesus to make mention of all that if its to occur thousands of years later. The purpose of the signs is to show that the end times are arriving. You're also missing a HUGE key point. The calamity Jesus refers to, he states that it will be like no other calamity EVER in the history of the world. When would this occur? With the disciples as witnesses! This calamity, we both know, is the end times.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Again, with the exact numbers? Is this all you have? The evidence is screaming at you and you fall back up a specific number. Even Jesus said there was NOT an exact number. No one knows the hour or day. Did he not say this?His disciples want to know when Jesus will return. Jesus gives them the signs. Its quite ridiculous for Jesus to tell his disciples they would witness the signs....but his return will be thousands of years later.What is hysterical is that if you go to any apologist site...they'll tell you the man will know the end times are upon them by the signs! Which signs? The ones in Matthew 24!All these sites agree that those are the signs for the end times. The part they ignore is that Jesus tells his disciples they would be the witness to these signs.I have been to quite a few Christian sites, and each break down the signs were verse. ALL left out the key points with Jesus talking to the disciples, telling them they would be the witnesses.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I dont have the exact number. Neither did Jesus. But Jesus did give a time frame. During the disciples lifetime.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Once that occurs, ths following will happen.
4) Disciples will be persecuted.
5) Many will turn away from their faith.
6) False prophets will appear.
7) Increase of wickedness. Jay, he does say. IMMEDIATELY after all this. When is disciples are still alive.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Um...yes. Hence our debate. Its a failed prophecy. Right. You're going to focus on one verse which does not give any indication of a time frame, while I focus on the ENTIRE chapter which does.Whos being honest here Jay?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Now remember, his followers asked WHEN the end times will occur. Jesus is giving a play by play. No, Jesus answered them exactly as I have stated. Keep watch. They will not know the day or hour, but they will witness all the signs and his return. Says it right there in Matthew 24.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I can sum this up quite easily. You need me to be wrong. You need it to read as want to read it. It could read exactly as you say and it would change not one thing for me. It would still not mean the Bible is true. But if Matthew 24 is wrong, your world comes crashing down. So you need to change the meanings of words, the context.I noticed every post I made, you never actually address the main issue, that being that the disciples were the witnesses. You glossed over this each and every time. You take one verse, which you have been shown to do quite often, which is ambigious and run with it. You ignore the surrounding verses which give the context.You cannot grasp that his disciples ask when Jesus will return. Jesus responds by telling them to keep watch for the signs. Simple logic. They would not have to watch for the signs if its to occur thousands of yearas later.Not only does Jesus tell them to watch for the signs, he tells them they will see the sun and moon darken, the stars fall out of the sky, that at the end times it will be the worse catastrophe EVER...in which they will be witness to it.Jesus says all these things, all these signs..................that his disciples will witness. Indepth, precise signs, they will witness. You instead take one verse and build a story around it, without reading the surrounding verses.Jesus tells them IMMEDIATELY after all the signs he has already given, he will return. Only those who need a return can change "immediately" to mean thouands of years in the future.Jesus tells his disciples to keep watch bc he will return when they do not expect him.Matthew 24 is so crystal clear, only those who cannot accept what is written see it your way.I cannot force you to admit what it states. But I do have no doubt, that you actually do see it my way. You do see it is written as I say. You're still trying though to find some loopholes to put your mind at ease. That perhaps there is something you missed that really would make it all say Jesus is returning 2000 plus years later.You can go to nearly any thread, and find a debate with a non-believer and a Christian. The evidence is with the non-believer, volumes,overwhelming....and the Christian goes with faith. That's exactly what you're doing here. The evidence for Matthew 24 is open and shut. You're going by faith that it must mean something else.Whew. Way too long. I guess we're done here though. Your heart is in the right place (telling me that you wish I would find Jesus) its just that your mind is not. Take care.

Jay, I do have a question for you. Ok, a few questions. Quite a few posts ago, you mentioned that a Christian would know scripture better than a non-believer. I'm curious as to why you believe that. Why? What advantage do they have?If both a skeptic and Christian are reading from the same text, why would the Christian have more understanding of scripture?I believe most Christians would have a bias to keep the Bible error free. So they would be at a disadvantage in my opinion.Also, there are thousands of denominations amongst Christians, each disagreeing with each other on certain aspects of the Bible. Apparently then, there are huge disagreements between Christians themselves.Plus, many non-believers were once Christian. Obviously they shared similiar beliefs as you do, seeing the Bible as you do, yet now have different view.Thanks.

Although this is not addressed to me, I want to respond. I, and others, have jumped around to scripture to SUPPORT our case. You seldom do. I have stated this quite a few times. Its that pesky CONTEXT thing.I used Revelation to show that Jesus said he would return with angels and reward mankind. I used this to refer back to Matthew, in which the same is stated.I used the other books outside of the gospels to show ALL who refered to the end times, used phrases that ALWAYS showed it was quite close.You bounce all around. You had an entire post on the word "generation" which didnt address the issue at all of Matthew 24 and his use of the phrase "this generation".There are a few meanings of the word. None of the versions you used had anything to do with the way Matthew used it.In fact, as I stated a few times, EVERY time "this generation" is used in the Bible, it refers to the time frame being talked about.See the difference how you and I use context?

The Jayuggernaut rolls on! I cannot tell if you are obtuse, do not undestand context or are lying. I really cant.First, you made so many errors in your last post concerning my previous post....that I spent quite a bit of time responding.I posted it and it went nowhere.So I decided to not repost it and concentrate on a few points.First, I never said the parables were out of context. I explained in detail what I was refering to and you still did not understand.Using the word "delay" and stating that it could mean any length of time is NOT using the context.Yes, the word "delay" can mean any amount of time, but using the surrouding scripture, we can tell how long the delay was suppose to be.Second, there was a delay, from when Jesus died to when he would return.Third, the delay was decades. The problem is that it was only suppose to be decades according to Matthew 24.Fourth, you're once again (which you do ever single time) destroy the context. You see the word "all" and you just throw it to mean every person then and now. You see the word "they" can you say it must refer to everyone including the disciples. You seem to forget that Jesus is talking to those in that time frame.Fifth, you believe since Jesus was talking to his disciples and you are a disciple that it must refer to you also. How ridiculous. By disciples, I'm refering to those being talked to IN FRONT of Jesus. That point you made alone shows you have no idea what context is. Everytime I said disciples, I was refering to those standing in front of him.So now lets stop playing games. Just answer the questions.3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"Who is Jesus talking to? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.Who is Jesus speaking to? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.Who is Jesus speaking to? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.Who is Jesus speaking to? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,Notice "at that time" which means that one time, NOT times......Who is Jesus speaking to? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination hat causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniellet the reader understand 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.All those events are to occur during the time of the desolation.Who is to witness this desolation? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!"Those days' refers back to everything Jesus has stated. Yes or no?20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.Who is Jesus refering to? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until nowand never to be equaled again.This great event according to Jesus, will only occur once. Yes or no?22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.Who is Jesus speaking to? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the electif that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.Who did Jesus tell ahead of time? His disciples or those 2000 years in the future?26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.Who is Jesus speaking to? His disciples or those 2000+ years in the future?27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]Does IMMEDIATELY mean quickly or 2000+ years later? Who is to witness this event? His disciples or those 2000+ years later?30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.Does "at that time" mean on or about the same time as the sun darkening or 2000+ years in the future?32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door.Who is Jesus speaking to? His disciples or those 2000+ years ni the future?34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."This generation", does it refer back to the story Jesus is telling?42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.Is Jesus still talking to his disciples? Yes or no?Simple questions Jay. Please, do not jump around like you usually do and grab scripture from anywhere else. Just answer the questions. They're simple questions. I do not need convuluted answers.

You bounce all around. You had an entire post on the word "generation" which didnt address the issue at all of Matthew 24 and his use of the phrase "this generation".
There are a few meanings of the word. None of the versions you used had anything to do with the way Matthew used it.In fact, as I stated a few times, EVERY time "this generation" is used in the Bible, it refers to the time frame being talked about. This is exactly what I mean when I say you do not use context. That you bounce around from scripture to scripture ignoring the issue.You have an entire post using the word "generation". Yet if I remember correctly, you used only "THIS generation" one time.That post was how nearly all your posts are. I stated that every time "this generation" is used, it refers to that time frame being discussed. You then posted probably ten scriptures with "generation", built an argument around each one....which misses the point entirely! CONTEXT!Its "THIS generation" we are debating.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------And I demonstrated it.
First, I never said the parables were out of context. I explained in detail what I was refering to and you still did not understand.
Using the word "delay" and stating that it could mean any length of time is NOT using the context.Yes, the word "delay" can mean any amount of time, but using the surrouding scripture, we can tell how long the delay was suppose to be. Why do you keep asking me for an exact time, when Jesus himself said that the disciples would not know the exact day or hour???? How many times must I bring this up? Also, a time IS given! How many times must I point out that not only did Jesus say his disciples would witness ALL the signs, but that Jesus states "this generation" which refers back to the disciples. Go back one chapter, who is Jesus speaking to?As for the parable, it means there are those who are prepared and those who are not, to put it simply.Now before I go any further...........Lets clarify something.When Jesus says "you", you are saying that it refers to all disciples, then and in the future?His disciples asked when the end times were to occur.Jesus tells them god will be sending signs.What is the purpose of the signs?

Jay, if you notice, even though I've told you before, its hERICtic.See the amusing play on words??? Little "he", then my name, then "tic".Imagine throwing heretic and Eric in a blender! This is that pesky context thing you keep ignoring. What Paul wrote is immaterial to what Matthew wrote. They are two seperate authors. This is what we (yeah those who you are debating) keep stating about jumping around, grabbing scripture which has nothing to do with our debate.We are discussing Matthew 24.I'll ask again. What are the purpose of the signs?Thanks.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

Obviously the generation Jesus refers to is 59AD.Now, I answered your question...can you please answer mine.What are the signs for?

For the fourth time....What are the signs for?Jesus is not Paul. We are discussing the words of Jesus. Again, you do this often. You're bouncing around.We know through the writings of Paul (which I and others have shown) that he also believed the end times were near.Which apparently multiple authors believed. NONE wrote anything about the end times being in the far off future. Not one.Every word used denotes a quick time frame.Can you please explain where you are trying to go with this?I'll ask for a fifth time....what are the signs for? Apparently you are avoiding this question.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

I will now ask you for the sixth time....What are the signs for?

For what? Equal. They lived during the same generation.

Can you please explain where you are trying to go with this? As Huntard already stated, its quite gray is being exact. But I have said from the youngest to the oldest which were alive during the lifetime of Jesus.Now, again I'll ask for the 8th time, what are the signs for?Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.