'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible

Aside from a typical human lifespan the word "generation" is used in other ways in the Bible. Generation can also be defined by a moral condition:A generation characterized by unbelief: "And He answered them and said, O unbelieving generation! How long shall I be with you? " (Mark 9:19)A generation characterized by being crooked and perverted: "That you may be blameless and guileless, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation ..." (Phil. 2:15)A unbelieving and perverted generation: "O unbelieving and perverted generation ..." (Luke 9:41) A prudent generation: " ... for the sons of this age are more prudent in their dealings with their own generation than the sons of light." (Luke 16:9) A generation disobedient to their parents: "There is a generation that curse their father, and do not bless their mother. " (Prov 30:11)A generation that is self righteous: "There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet they are not washed from their filthiness." (Prov 30:12)A generation characterized by pride: "There is a generation - oh how lofty are their eyes, and their eyelids are raised [arrogantly]. " (Prov. 30:13) A generation characterized by mean speech and selfishness: "There is a generation whose teeth are like swords, and their jaw teeth like knives, to devour the afflicted from off the earth, and the needy from among men." (Prov. 30:14) These are examples of generation defined by moral condition. And I believe that it is in these sense the word was intended in Matthew 24:34. "Truly I say to you that this generation shall by no means pass away until all these things happen." In the discourse about last things four times Jesus warns the disciples not to be led astray. The major characteristic of this generation is one of leading people AWAY from the truth of God. And this generation, characterized by that moral condition, prone to wander away from the truth of God, should not pass away until all these things, (ALL of them) should come to pass.For the sake of argument I adopted the typical meaning of lifespan to the word. But that major component was the lifespan of the speaker Jesus. In that case His generation endured a brief interruption but resumed and continued at His resurrection.Finally, I adopted for arguments's sake the life span of one of his disciples, ie. Peter or John. But from the writings of these two disciples, they apparently did not take it as a failed prophecy either. Rather they prepared their audience to continue in the faith after their expected death.Why would they NOT thus arm themselves? God did not immediatly grant Abraham the total promises that were given to him. They knew that they were dealing with the same God.God did not immediately grant David all that was promised him. And they were dealing with the same God.God did not immediately grant Moses all that was promised him. Moses saw the good land but was not allowed at that time to enter into it. You have to be foolish to assume all these lessons of faith in the OT escaped the NT discples. They knew they were dealing with the same God. The two teachings came out of the mouth of Jesus Himself. And in those teachings He used the word "delayed". Both teachings are spiritual and moral preparations for the disciples to meet the Lord Jesus. This is not insignificant. I am examining ALL the provided evidence of what was in the mind of Christ on the subject matter.Though no specific time amount is defined on the word "delayed" (tarried), the word is used. And some of us do not ignore it. It is in fact what has occured.While Jesus delayed His second coming the original disciples grew drowsy and slept. This could mean that they died and slept in death. It could also mean that the apostles became innattentive and allowed false Christians and heresys to infiltrate the brotherhood.This is historically realistic. And much latter at the midnight, ie. the darkest time in world history, the Bridegroom Christ finally returns. And at that time the drowsy disciples who "slept" arise in resurrection and go to meet the returning Christ.Such an interpretation is not fanciful at all. It well fits what is going on in church history. No one said that the Bible is always easy to understand. And in the Old Testament God did tell His people that His revelation would be to them line upon line, here a little and there a little: However, in all of the discourse of the second coming of Christ and the last things there is one simplistic lesson which cannot be mistaken. And that is that His followers are to watch and be ready. They are to live in the light of His sudden unexpected arrival.This spiritual lesson is unmistakenly straighforward, simple. Since the time is not known by anyone, the Christians must supplement their ignorance of it with vigilance and readiness.As the apostle John wrote: "Beloved now are we the children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested we will be like Him because we will see Him even as He is.

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And everyone who has this hope set on Him purifies himself, even as He is pure." (1 John 3:2,3) So this is not at all a matter of failed prophecy. It is a matter of Christ seeking to gain a people on earth like Enoch who walked with God. And one day he was taken.Your priority is to prove a failed prophecy based on a non-existent date of His return. God's priorities are more along the line of securing a people like Enoch who know judgment is coming and therefore walk vigilantly with God.The day will eventually come when some of them will be taken before the great tribulation. And those who are alive and left remaining will have passed through it, and be taken at the end of the great tribulation. (1 Thess 4:17). Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Glowby, I am going to try to bring my responses to your post back to the subject. I drifted away.What Jesus commanded His disciples was to abide in Him and allow Him to abide in them. This means that through the last 2000 years Jesus is alive and available.He is not only available but "enterable". That means His Person is a realm, a sphere into which people can enter. This is radical. But the New Testament is not living by 600 plus Old Testament commandments and ordinances.Available - Matthew's Gospel does not leave us with the impression that Jesus went away anywhere. It closes with this word from Jesus: " ... And behold I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age" (Matt. 28:20) Matthew tells us that Jesus was Emmanuel - "God with us". And He closes his gospel by Jesus saying He is with us all the days , even unto the consummation of the age. He is with the disciples until the second coming physically. So Christ is available.John also does not conclude His gospel with the concept that Jesus went anywhere. John emphasizes that Jesus can enter into man's innermost being: "Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My words; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23) Jesus is available in that He is with His believers until the end of the age.Jesus can enter into the believers human spirit, the kernel of their being and make an abode with them.Jesus also can be entered into: "Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

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I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing." (John 15:4,5)Apart from abiding in an "organic" union with the resurrected and living Jesus we can do nothing. Or all that we do do will account up to be nothing on the day of judgment.While there has been much emphasis on Jesus coming back physically to His followers, this is rather easy to grasp. It is outward and objective. And we have a few people here saying this prophecy has failed.I do not believe this at all. But I do believe it was important to God in the last 2000 years that millions of people would learn to abide in the resurrected, available, enterable living Christ to learn to live in oneness with Him.Christ bodily rose from the dead. In addition He transformed Himself into form in which He can enter into our being as a Divine life giving Spirit: "The last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)God wanted no simply to have Jesus descend from heaven to man outwardly. He will indeed fulfill that prophecy. But He wants something to come back FOR. And that is an army of His people abiding in Him, living in a "organic" union with Him as the indwelling life giving Spirit.He has had this here and there sporadically in faithful ones. But He does not coerce His people to live this way. Today He desires a substantial group on the five continents where the gospel of the kingdom has gone, to live Christ.This is not simply to live for Christ. It is to receive Christ and live in a mingled way with Christ. It is actually to allow Christ to live again on the earth but this time within us. "For me to live is Christ ..." (Phil. 1:21) "I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God Who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)"When Christ Who is our life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory." (Col. 3:4) All these passages help us to see WHAT Christ is returning physically to the earth for. It is for a people who have learned to abide in Christ, absorb Christ, be saturated with Christ, have Christ as their life, and live Christ.This will BRING Him back. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Matthew 25:1-13, the parable of the ten virgins, is right in the middle of Christ's prophecies and teachings about preparation for His second coming. So it is certainly not out of context.If is flanked on either side by teachings about prudence, faithfulness (Matt. 24:45-31; 25:14-30)Now you are saying what I have been saying. The word "delayed" is opened ended. As you say "one second to thousands of years". The parable just states that the Bridegroom delayed. It simply states that the bridegroom, representing Christ, delayed. All we believers can do, who are represented by the ten virgins, is to look back on church history and surmise that the delay is still going on.So it is not a moot point. This could explain why Jesus, standing on the ground as a man subject to the all knowing Father, Himself at that time did not know when He would have His second advent. So you are now saying what I have been saying. The disciples but not me ???I am a disciple of Jesus too. Besides, "What I say to you, I say to ALL, Watch!" I am part of the ALL, the other followers of Jesus who have an ear to hear Him. So He is also talking to me.Furthermore, the phrase "the chosen" or "the elect" was used by Jesus on occasion rather than "YOU." "For false Christs and false prophets will arise ... and will show signs and wonders so as to lead astray, if possible, even the CHOSEN." (v.24) He did not say " ... lead astray, if possible, even YOU"" ... but on account of the chosen, those days will be cut short" (v.22)He did not say " ... but on account of YOU, those days will be cut short." The tone is therefore inclusive of all who have an ear to hear Him, all who are chosen. It is not restricted to the twelve.Verse 30 also is inclusive of "they". He does not only say "YOU". ".... and THEY will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." It is difficult to imagine from this way of speaking that Jesus was not also addressing possible future people. You seem to ingore His resurrection. You seem always to speak of His return after His death. He rose from death. So you are saying what I have been saying.We disciples look back over the last two millennia and admit that there has been a delay.It is the unbeliever like you who interprets the delay as a failed prophecy. But for me, if His prophecy to rise from the dead was fulfilled, we need not worry that other prophecies will not be fulfilled.He prophesied that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church. The Christian church is still here. So I have little doubt that delay does not mean failure as to His second coming. And I interpret that to mean that at that time some of the disciples will have experienced the delay.That they slept in Christian death and arose at midnight to go forth to meet the Bridegroom in resurrection fits very well.Going FORTH probably means being raptured.
So after a long delay in church history, at that time of His second coming, some lovers of Jesus will arise in resurrection at the darkest hour of world history. They will be resurrected and raptured to go forth to meet the Lord, the lovable Bridegroom who they have waited for. This goes into the need for a more detailed analysis of the parable which I have not done. I can though in another thread perhaps.The parable shows that the wise virgins had not only initial oil but extra oil in their vessels with their lamps.The foolish only had oil in thier vessels. Oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. So the meaning should be that the initial Holy Spirit they all had. But the wise had extra portion.The extra oil in the vessel along with the lamp signifies the Holy Spirit saturating the soul, the personality. Whereas the oil in the lamp signifies the Holy Spirit in the human spirit.Oil in the lamp is a gift and is obtained by being born again.
Extra oil in the vessel along with the lamp signifies sanctification, transformation in the personality. And this requires the paying of a price.The foolish virgins are excluded from the celebration. It does not say that they perish. They are not lost eternally. They are excluded from a certain portion of celebration at the second coming of Christ.This is what is going to happen to all the disciples who have believed in Jesus down through the centries.Five wise and five foolish does not mean that half are wise and half are foolish. Rather five is the biblical number representing responsibility. Whether the disciples are wise or foolish is of their own responsibility. So you are now admiting that using it is not out of context then.No further comment at the moment. But you reversed yourself because above you stated that my using the parable of the ten virgins was out of context. None of this negates that Jesus could delay His second coming for 2000 years or more.And there is good reason to believe that the sleeping virgins refers to disciples who died while waiting for the second coming. I do not have to insist on this. But I think it fits very well. And it goes along with 1 Thess. chapter 4 which you previosly appealed to. At no time have I insisted that it "MUST" mean that thousand of years latter. Since it is unknown how long the delay is it could mean as much time as we have seen in the past since these words were spoken.The words would not have been wrong if the second coming had occured 2000 years ago. Neither would they be wrong should that event occur in the near or distant future. That is my point. So 2000 years in not the wrong amount of time. It doesn't have to. As long as it is open ended, that amount of time is not wrong.And you are also quite wrong to decouple verse 35 from 34. They should be considered together: "Truly I say to you that this generation shall by no means pass away until all these things happen. Heaven and earth will pass away but My words will not pass away."Saying that verse 35 has nothing to do with verse 34 is quite wrong. Honest? I am being honest. If His prophecy to rise from the dead was fulfilled, I have confidence that His word on His second coming is also trustworthy.I honestly think you are a deceived person. The fact that He uses the word "THEY" implies that the disciples are not the ONLY ones for whom the teaching concerns or is for: "And at the time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and THEY will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." The "THEY" will certainly include some believers in Christ. This occurs at the end of the great tribulation for He says: "And immediately after the tribulation of those days ..."He may mean the great tribulation. But if He did not it is still noteworthy that He says "the tribulation of THOSE days." Why did He not say "the tribulation of [THESE] days" ? .The tone is that the time until this event is open ended and unspecified. Your ignoring the reason for His saying it. That is to equip the disciples with endurance.Sure, the words of Jesus will still be important AFTER the second coming. But the context suggests that He is arming them with endurance to be able to pass through the times to come and not lose sight of His promise. And that promise is of inevitable universal vindication of the Son of God.And I think I will close here. Goodnight.But in closing, if we strictly insist that "this generation" means Peter's living contemporaries, those of us who are serious to follow Jesus have to look to see what Peter's attitude was.Can you point out to me Peter's indication of a failed prophesy? And if you can't then I will take my concept from Peter's view.I would have to assume that you are one of the false teachers or false prophets that Jesus warned us to be aware of. I will not let you lead me astray. I don't see the Apostle Peter whining about failed prophesy.His closing attitude is quite victorious and upbeat. It tastes like the Jesus I know. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Good point. It is the general premise that Christ comes back in glory, victoriously to be vindicated - THAT is quite easy to grasp.Now the fine details - where, exactly how, the precise indications, what will the disciples being doing, what will be the situation of Israel ... etc. those finer details are disputed. I do not object to that. I have not argued that He was expected and desired to physically return sooner then He has.My point has been that this "delay" of the Lord Jesus does not constitute a failed prophecy.Look at Peter, John, and Paul's closing words. Sure, thier beloved Lord has not yet had His second coming. Do they seem devastated? Do they seem depressed. Do they even appear disappointed ?I say, no they do not. They are too busy enjoying His indwelling presence with them at that moment and preaching the gospel to the lost. They are shepherding the flock and doing their best to prepare them to carry on after their probable departure.They talk about "last times" and last days. They innoculate the church against growing apostasy.Rather than failed prophesy they were enjoying the FULFILLMENT of Christ words. They were doing greater things then their Master had done as He had predicted. The churches were spreading. The gospel was going out to all the world. The very blood of the martyrs was only going to encrease the number of faithful.They witnessed the Spirit of Christ keeping them through every conceivable kind of hardship and trial. They were in joy that His promises were being fulfilled rather than broken.Truly, the gates of Hell could not prevail against the Lord's church. So they and we are all quite encouraged. You haven't convinced me that any promise was broken. You have only demonstrated to me that some unbelievers are wasting their life's time gloating over what they hope is a failed prophecy of Christ.All this tells me is that they are unbelievers.
Many of the pharisees also hope His prophesy of a resurrection after crucifixion would also fail.But according to the book of Acts many more pharisees became believers after hearing Peter's preaching. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I usually quote out of the Recovery Version:The Holy Bible Recovery VersionBut I have always nearby a number of other good English translations. I don't really understand this charge .... "using single WORDS in a disconnected sentence ...".Vine's New Testament Word Study Dictionary confirms that there are various usages of the word generation, though I do not always agree with Vine on how he interprets those instances. See Luke 11:29 . " ... This generation is an evil generation; it seeks a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it except the sign of Jonah. "Here is a "generation" .... "this generation" characterized by evil and seeking a sign. There is no good reason for me to believe that that "evil" sign seeking generation does not include some future people to when He spoke.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

In Matthew 12:43-45 Jesus compares the rejection He receives from Israel as the plight of a demon possessed man. And He speaks of "this evil generation": Since the rejection of Jesus as the Messiah has more and more hardened with the majority of the Jews as they hone in thier logic to disqualify Jesus of Nazareth as their Messiah, "this evil generation" certainly should be understood to mean more than just the contemporary audience.It has been said that modern Judaism since the initialization of the Christian church has bolstered itself encreasingly upon the opposition to the Gospel of Jesus.(Not that some religious "Christian" people didn't help)
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Jesus characterizes a generation ... "this generation" (Matt. 11:16) as one making exscuses one way or another to reject God's prophets and messengers including the Son of Man: "But to what shall I liken THIS GENERATION? It is like little children sitting in the marketplaces, who call to the others and say, We have played the flute to you, and you did not dance; we have sung a dirge, and you did not mourn.

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For John came neither eating nor drinking; and they say, He has a demon. The Son of Man came eating and drinking; and they say, Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners ..." (Matt. 11:16-19b)This "generation" is characterized by people's rationals shifting from one excuse to the other, for not receiving the word of God.This same kind of making of excuses to reject the Son of Man still continues to this day.The Bible is too old.
It is not old enough like the code of Hammarubi.Jesus is too Jewish.
He is not Jewish enough.Jesus was too hard.
Jesus was too meek and mild.People today are still characterized as always finding a rational why they should not receive Christ. There is no good reason for me to believe that "this generation" in Matt. 11:16 did not also include people future to whom Christ was addressing in that audience displaying the same moral condition.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Have you read all of the exchanges that have taken place between Heretic, grabarger, and myself? It is not hard for me to recall how we got into other passages beside Matthew 24:34 and the word "generation" .If I recall right, I poised a question to one of those two posters. I asked someone whether there was also evidence that Christ's second coming would not be as soon as the disciples expected.In light of that question I went to two parables and discribed contributing evidence which I felt indicated that it was also in the mind of Jesus to prepare the disciples for a longer wait for His second coming.You don't like this and accuse me of getting off the subject. Your criticism I find to be biased. And here is why.Heretic and others have gone to other portions of the word to try to strengthened thier argument. They went into 1 Thess. 4:17. They went into Matthew 17. They went into Revelation chapter 1. They went to Matthew 25. I saw no protest from you that they were jumping around and not being focused.If Heretic can refer to other passages to supply evidence for his view I can do the same. And I told him I did not mind him doing so. I told him that I would consider his points on a case by case basis as to the strength or weakness of their relevance and support.Your biased annoyance of supporting arguments beside Matthew 24:34, to the OP, doesn't impress me. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

In this discussion I have written quite a lot about the usages of the word generation and my view of it in Matthew 24:34.Heretic, the one I have mostly been conversing with, has jumped to other passages in Matthew, Revelation, 1 Thessalonians.It didn't seem to bother you that he jumped around. And it doesn't bother me. I am willing to consider his other passages.Perhaps you are annoyed because a lot of skeptics like to try to "divide and conquer" the revelation of the Bible. They like to slice and dice the parts of the plenary revelation of the Bible so that the amputated pieces have nothing to do with each other.This is how they try to "kill the beast" by separating the parts far apart from each other.Of course to draw from different parts to support their skepticism is OK.This discussion I think is mainly on the field of teachings of Jesus from Matthew 17, 24 and 25. The parable of the ten virgins is in chapter 25.It is in the same chapter as the judgment of the living nations at Christ's second coming, a portion that Heretic argued his point of view from.You didn't object to him doing so then.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I don't think the outcome is not that it is a "moot point." The outcome is that since there is no specific time frame in terms of numbers of years, how can you say 2000 years is a wrong number ?It is purposely left non-specific. God didn't want you or me or anyone to know exactly when Christ would physically return.If you are wise, because you DON'T know, you should want to stay close to Christ spiritually.You cannot grasp that as the point of Matthew 24 ?I'll give you this - I looked up the word "generation" Vine's Expository Word Study of New Testament Words (title?).He agrees with you that "generation" in Matt. 24:34 should mean Christ's contemporaries.The problem with this is that, even if Vine is right, Christ is risen and alive. I am pretty sure Vine would agree. Arguably then, those not born until 300 AD would be His contemporaries.Would they not be? If He rose from the dead then how can I say all of His generation is gone?If you don't believe that He rose and is alive, you might erroneously assume Christ and all that generation is gone. I'm a Christian. Don't ask me to think that way.At any the words of Jesus Himself in Matthew 24:34,35 strongly imply that the listeners should hang on to His promises no matter how long they take to materialize.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

[/qs]Sheer baloney.
I have not done anything different in principle from what you have done.You in essence - "But this passage supports my view".
Me in essence - "Did you think about this passage? It supports what I am saying." What's pesky about it ? And I did the same (in principle of relating it to Christ's Second Advent) , going over details that you did not notice. And making corrections, ie. "tribes of the land"I didn't do anything that you did not do. I also drew support from other portions even within the Matthew 17, 24, 25 context. And that is DEAD WRONG. There are some senses of "generation" which are not chronological but moral / spiritual.And I demonstrated it. I don't see any difference. In all your boasting about paying attention to context you tried to splice apart verse 35 from 34 in a suspicious way.But I may come back to this matter of the word generation with laser like focus. And I will establish the case for Ramoss how it is best understood in Matthew 24:34.And I will draw on supporting scriptures which elsewhere use the word or evidence the nature of a non-chronological sense of "generation".May not do it today though. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

How long was it suppose to be then ?Now I am trying hard to follow you. But I point out that YOU are not taking seriously that in the parable the virgins all became drowsy and SLEPT.If you object to me interpreting that that strongly implies that they DIED, then I am interested in your alternative explanation.What do you think it means that the tem virgins all became drowsy and slept ? It is rather from when He ASCENDED and RETURNS.The Holy Spirit (the OIL for the lamps) was mainly imparted to the disciples after Jesus resurrected (John 20:22) and after He ASCENDED to Heaven (Acts 1:8; Luke 24:49)You mention "pesky context". How about "pesky consistancy with the rest of the New Testament" ?Or do you have an alternative interpretation to what it means for the virgins to have ... OIL ? This is only possible if one holds that "generation" is chronological and means everyone in the discussion including Jesus terminated their lives in death.Only in that condition could you possibly insist on decade/s.
I don't accept that chronological sense of the word generation in Matthew 24:34. And your statement that that is the ONLY sense of the word in the New Testament is demonstrably false. In the context of the parable, the all refers simply to ALL of the ten virgins. "And while the bridegroom delayed, they ALL became drowsy and slept." (v.5) Since First Thessalonians says some will be alive and left remaing it is obvious that some Christians will not have died, if when the Bridegroom comes back. That is if we interpret slept as meaning the death of the disciples.I await your alternative interpretation of the phrase "drowsy and slept".But I think the parable's point is that some disciples DIED more prepared for the Lord's second coming. They were wise. And some disciples DIED less prepared for the Lord's coming. They were FOOLISH.Now, WHY were some of them foolish ?? Probably because they neglected some aspect of being filled with the Spirit, the "oil" in thier personalities. They assumed perhaps that because Jesus was coming right around the corner, it was not necessary to live a really Spirit filled Christian life.Before you scoff in dismissal, consider the entire letter of Second Thessalonians where Paul has to give a balancing word to some of the Christians in the church in Thessolonika. They thought they could drop their day job and just wait for Jesus to snatch their bodies away.Paul had to bring them back from a foolish and presumptious attitude. This is a very strange phenomenon you have. That is the concept that Jesus' words are not to listeners of Jesus ever since Jesus walked on the earth.I tried to help you. "What I say to you, I say to ALL. Watch!". You simply do not take that passage seriously. It is not ridiculous. In fact the reason why Matthew included the conversation was for the benefit of all the followers of Jesus.If you do not want to be in the audience, that is your loss. That is your Gospel rejecting business. Because you do not want to hear Jesus don't tell me that He is not talking to me. " Heaven and earth shall pass away. But my words shall by no means pass away." I notice that heaven and earth are still around me, so I want to take heed to the words of Christ. Do I know what day my Lord Jesus will come? Yes or No?
If "No" is your answer, as it would be mine, then this sentence is to ME ... "Watch therefore, for you do not know the day nor the hour." (Matt. 25:13)Now if YOUR unbelieving, skeptical soul doesn't care to hear, that's on YOU. Don't tell me He is not talking to me. They ASKED The question one behalf of the rest of us disciples. And that is why Matthew recorded it, so we could also have the benefit. He was talking to His disciples PERIOD. "And what I say to you I say to all. Watch!" (Mark 13:37).Don't whine about context. It is virtually the SAME discussion. The disciples including me, jaywill.And if I were you, I would quickly decide that you also better pay attention. The skeptics have your head twisted around. He was speaking to us disciples so that we would also not go running after Mohammed, Bahuallah, Charles Russell, Charles Manson, Rev. Sun Myung Moon, Jim Jones, David Koresh, and YOU TOO or whoever it was who stuffed your head with the failed prophecy error. All together now. What does He say ???? "And what I say to you, I say to all. Watch!"How come He didn't say "And what I say to you I say to NO ONE ELSE" ??I have to stop here for the night. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

In Matthew 24:34 I think that "generation" is defined by a moral and spiritual condition rather than chronological dates.I tried the prophecy out assuming other meanings and it still is no slam dunk for the "failed prophecy" crowd.I will be saying more about this soon. But first, you say that "We're still waiting". If Jesus were to come today, where would you be ? He says this: "The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will collect ouyt of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into a furnace of fire. In that place there will be weeping and kn=gnashing of teeth.

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Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43) You are waiting and waiting. While you are waiting can you call God your own Father?. Have you been reconciled to the Father through the salvation of the Son?Or are you just curiously waiting in a naive and presumptious way? Are your sins washed away before God in the blood of Jesus? Where would you be if the kingdom of God were manifested from heaven today ? Will you be one of the righteous sons of the Father shining forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father ?The Apostle Peter said that the delay was for the reason that God wished all would advance to repentence: "The Lord does not delay regarding the promise, as some count delay, but is long-suffering toward you, not intending that any perish but that all advance to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)We are concerned for the "failed prophecy" crowd, with binoculars curiously set on the sky, impatiently waiting of the second coming of Christ, if they are not reconciled TO Christ through His salvation.I use the time to be washed in the blood of Christ from all my sins and be filled with the Spirit of Christ in ALL of my living. I use the delay for His eternal purpose to grow Himself within me. As of yet I have stated no position about the inerrancy of the Bible. I think the autographs were free from errors. The Scriptures were copied and we have only manuscripts many of which clearly reveal errors as typos of copyist while at the same time amazingly accurate given the number and times of copying.None of these typos seem to effect any major biblical truth.I don't think the delay proves any error in the word of God.
The ID question is really another discussion. We can meet on one of the discussions on Genesis under Bible Study and I'd give you my thoughts on that.But I would draw your attention now to Revelation chapter 10. You know this book contains a good amount of prophecy about the last days before the second coming of Christ. Look here where Christ symbolized as another strong Angel SWEARS the there will be DELAY NO LONGER:In this book of "signs" Jesus Christ as a strong Messenger, a strong Angel comes and lifts His right hand to the Father and swears the THERE WILL BE DELAY NO LONGER."The time of God's longsuffering will have come to an end. All who will advanced to repentance have either done so or they have not. For the sake of His own righteousness the long suffering God will terminate the delay.The parable of the ten virgins said " ... while the bridegroom DELAYED, they all became drowsy and slept" (Matt. 25:5)And the parable of the faithful servants says "Now after a LONG TIME the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them." (Matt. 25:19) But the day will come when Christ will hover close to the earth, concealed in clouds -"clothed with a cloud" (Rev. 10:1), His feet as pillars of fire signifying steadfastness (pillars) of divine holiness (fire) upon the land and the sea. And as an angry lion ready to tear the enemies of God to pieces without mercy, yet remaining faithful to the covenant of Noah, signified by the rainbow around His head, will bring the longsuffering DELAY of His Father to an end.In the mean time we need to be washed from all our sins which only takes a moment. But we need to be filled with the Holy Spirit to live in and and by the indwelling Lord Jesus to be saturated with His nature in our personalities.We need to use the time of the delay to be sanctified and conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God: You see, those who are wise, like the wise virgins, will use the DELAY to have our beings justified, forgiven, and conformed to the image of Christ through His transforming Holy Spirit. Then we will be able to enter into that coming minifested kingdom and enjoy the recovered earth under Christ's reign.We need the TIME of the delay to be filled with the Spirit of Jesus for transformation, sanctification, glorification that we may enter into the joy of the Lord in His second coming.So I pray "Lord Jesus. How can I wisely use the time of your delaying to be prepared to enter into the new world of the Father's kingdom? I want to use the time wisely." I think the wise thing for you to do is to go to the Lord Jesus in prayer. You should ask Him under the cleansing redemption of His blood, to supply you with the proper attitude you should have concerning His second coming.I think you should derive you attitude directly from the Holy Spirit. Let Christ implant the godly and proper attitude you should have about His kingdom.

Yes. Jesus is still talking to His disciples. Read John chapter 16 about the Holy Spirit.Now I have a question for you. In Revelation 10 where the strong Angel swears to God the Creator that "there shall be DELAY no longer, " does that indicate that there was a delay ?See Revelation 10:1-6. I will only quote verses 6 and 7: Is it not logical to intepret the delaying of the Bridegroom in the parable of the ten virgins to be the delay that this strong Messenger swears that there shall be no more of ?I think so.

Your ignorance of the fact that "generation" in verse 34 is defined by moral and spiritual condition of the leaders of Israel rather then the chronology and life span, is why you regard Matt. 24:34 as a failed prophecy.And people who want proselytes usually want something like support, money, allegiance, work, etc.I don't know what it is you think you have that I could possibly want.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.